Alright, lets have a civil discussion on the Intercooler/No Intercooler topic. We all know there are kits with Intercoolers on the market and soon ones that wont have one. I have read alot from guys pushing the Intercoolers that its the only way to go.
1.Is It?
2.Why?
3.And If in your opinion its not possible to get good results without one, please explain how it is on a Street Bike, Car, or any other 4 stroke power plant. Especially considering the cold envoirnments associated
with snowmobiling
4.I dont doubt that the Intercooler makes a turbo work more effeciently that one without, but lets say a guy can get 180-200 HP without one and pay alot less money. Is it still a good value?
5.Would the addition of additional heat exchangers help with the engine cooling?
6.Would Hood vents cool the charge if they were placed directly by the air intake to the carb
7.Lastly, doesnt adding a turbo of any kind add more stress to your motor and reduce its longevity regardless of intercooling or not?
Thanks for everyones input. This should be a very interesting thread...BBY
1.Is It?
2.Why?
3.And If in your opinion its not possible to get good results without one, please explain how it is on a Street Bike, Car, or any other 4 stroke power plant. Especially considering the cold envoirnments associated
with snowmobiling
4.I dont doubt that the Intercooler makes a turbo work more effeciently that one without, but lets say a guy can get 180-200 HP without one and pay alot less money. Is it still a good value?
5.Would the addition of additional heat exchangers help with the engine cooling?
6.Would Hood vents cool the charge if they were placed directly by the air intake to the carb
7.Lastly, doesnt adding a turbo of any kind add more stress to your motor and reduce its longevity regardless of intercooling or not?
Thanks for everyones input. This should be a very interesting thread...BBY
Silver Streak
Extreme
BBY;
Excellent quetions! I can't wait to hear the pros and cons from everyone. Especially since I am probably going to be testing for jtssrx this winter in the mountains. I just hope this will be an intelligent thread instead of a pissing match for who's set up is better.
SS
Excellent quetions! I can't wait to hear the pros and cons from everyone. Especially since I am probably going to be testing for jtssrx this winter in the mountains. I just hope this will be an intelligent thread instead of a pissing match for who's set up is better.
SS
The Streak, I hope the same thing. Id like to keep this to a civil conversation. Im surprised no one has answered yet...BBY
Mikey
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I agree good question.
My opinion is that you couldnt cool the outside air any more than it is already to be of any noticable performance increase. I believe that there probably is a boost level not to exceed but what does it all boil down to detonation correct? If so its a timing problem not a intake charge temp problem. I am the first to tell you i know nothing about turbos so i could be wrong on my opinions if so cool, I have learned something new and thats all that really maters to me.
My opinion is that you couldnt cool the outside air any more than it is already to be of any noticable performance increase. I believe that there probably is a boost level not to exceed but what does it all boil down to detonation correct? If so its a timing problem not a intake charge temp problem. I am the first to tell you i know nothing about turbos so i could be wrong on my opinions if so cool, I have learned something new and thats all that really maters to me.
OK here goes
The cooler the charge air temp is, the more boost you can run for a given level of octane.
Yes detonation is the enemy, and it occurs more easily with elevated charge air temp.
The cooler the charge air temp, the denser the intake charge, hence more power.
Yes it is possible to have a good turbo system witout an intercooler, but at lower given boost levels while using pump fuel.
Lets see how this much goes, I hope to keep this civil as well.
Keith
The cooler the charge air temp is, the more boost you can run for a given level of octane.
Yes detonation is the enemy, and it occurs more easily with elevated charge air temp.
The cooler the charge air temp, the denser the intake charge, hence more power.
Yes it is possible to have a good turbo system witout an intercooler, but at lower given boost levels while using pump fuel.
Lets see how this much goes, I hope to keep this civil as well.
Keith
MXZ900
MXZ900: You can run the same boost on pump fuel without a cooler Mr Turbo a company that has built kits for 25 years sells all there kits f bikes setup to run on 8 to 10 pounds of boost with no intercooler. If anyone is concerend I will e running my personal seld first in the next two weeks and I'll post the results.
I think it's in poor taste to rip someone else's product. I never ripped Benders of MC. I endorsed MC but those days are over. I'm only going to endorce my own. I could throw stones as well but I will be professional.
MXZ900: You can run the same boost on pump fuel without a cooler Mr Turbo a company that has built kits for 25 years sells all there kits f bikes setup to run on 8 to 10 pounds of boost with no intercooler. If anyone is concerend I will e running my personal seld first in the next two weeks and I'll post the results.
I think it's in poor taste to rip someone else's product. I never ripped Benders of MC. I endorsed MC but those days are over. I'm only going to endorce my own. I could throw stones as well but I will be professional.
Professional response my a**
Grow up jt
Grow up jt
Gloves come off mxz900
I've been super nice to you. I don't understand why you keep comming at me. You don't even build a turbo kit. When you build something yourself lets talk.
I've also tried to extend my hand in an apology to you in a private message. You have a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been super nice to you. I don't understand why you keep comming at me. You don't even build a turbo kit. When you build something yourself lets talk.
I've also tried to extend my hand in an apology to you in a private message. You have a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One more thing evertone see's what your doing. Your trying to draw me into a fight. It's not going to work.
MXZ900, thanks for the response. I would like you to elaborate a little more with regards to the specific questions I asked. I understand what an intercooler does. In particular these questions if you wouldnt mind. Thanks
3.And If in your opinion its not possible to get good results without one, please explain how it is on a Street Bike, Car, or any other 4 stroke power plant. Especially considering the cold envoirnments associated
with snowmobiling
4.I dont doubt that the Intercooler makes a turbo work more effeciently that one without, but lets say a guy can get 180-200 HP without one and pay alot less money. Is it still a good value?
5.Would the addition of additional heat exchangers help with the engine cooling?
6.Would Hood vents cool the charge if they were placed directly by the air intake to the carb
7.Lastly, doesnt adding a turbo of any kind add more stress to your motor and reduce its longevity regardless of intercooling or not?
...BBY
3.And If in your opinion its not possible to get good results without one, please explain how it is on a Street Bike, Car, or any other 4 stroke power plant. Especially considering the cold envoirnments associated
with snowmobiling
4.I dont doubt that the Intercooler makes a turbo work more effeciently that one without, but lets say a guy can get 180-200 HP without one and pay alot less money. Is it still a good value?
5.Would the addition of additional heat exchangers help with the engine cooling?
6.Would Hood vents cool the charge if they were placed directly by the air intake to the carb
7.Lastly, doesnt adding a turbo of any kind add more stress to your motor and reduce its longevity regardless of intercooling or not?
...BBY
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
An intercooler undoubtably will make more power but on a turboed snowmobile it might not make the gains it would on a larger Powerplant!
On a car with 630hp you could gain 70-100 hp but on a sled only making 200hp you might only gain 15-25 hp. That and in the middle of winter the air is already cold.
Compressing air tripples the air temp. Making detination a major factor!
An extra $1000 for 20 hp isnt worth it but , on a car a $1000 intercooler would be well worth 70-100hp and the money!
On a car with 630hp you could gain 70-100 hp but on a sled only making 200hp you might only gain 15-25 hp. That and in the middle of winter the air is already cold.
Compressing air tripples the air temp. Making detination a major factor!
An extra $1000 for 20 hp isnt worth it but , on a car a $1000 intercooler would be well worth 70-100hp and the money!
Buckeye
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Worth it
I happen to disagree with you about the extra 20 HP being worth the $1000. I believe it is. That 20hp is going to be the difference between being in the pack with the rest of the big dogs or being ahead of them. There are alot of 180 HP XCR's, Thundercats and MachZ's out there but not that many 200+ HP sleds that are reliable and able to run long distances. Also, the intercooler enables you to run higher boost and achieve more than 20 HP. The MCXpress unit makes 218 HP at 10 lbs. which is 38 HP and that is where I will be running mine when I need to. I think 38 HP is worth the $1000. :!:
I happen to disagree with you about the extra 20 HP being worth the $1000. I believe it is. That 20hp is going to be the difference between being in the pack with the rest of the big dogs or being ahead of them. There are alot of 180 HP XCR's, Thundercats and MachZ's out there but not that many 200+ HP sleds that are reliable and able to run long distances. Also, the intercooler enables you to run higher boost and achieve more than 20 HP. The MCXpress unit makes 218 HP at 10 lbs. which is 38 HP and that is where I will be running mine when I need to. I think 38 HP is worth the $1000. :!:
fstblkwarrior
Extreme
I think 20hp is worth a $1000. I think the best thing everyone is missing is we all have a choice. To some of us having 180hp is plenty and worth the price. Others have a ton of money or have to be number one and spend a lot to get that much more of a edge. I think that's great. One thing is for sure, turbo's may not hurt your engine if everything is tuned right in the short term, but in the long run it will. Any professional engine builder knows you build a engine different that's going to be ran with a turbo than one that's not. Low compression pistons, different cams, etc. A stock RX-1 is not meant to be ran with a turbo! Plain and simple. But they are durable enough to where 10000 miles with one shouldn't be a problem.
Sure thing BBY here goes, an attempt at least.
3) It is possible to get great results without an intercooler, however the (envelope) can be pushed more with an intercooler as the potential is greater with a given combination.
Given the compression ratio of the RX1 the boost levels obtainable without intercooling it will be lower than most autos, as they typically have lower compression ratios. allthough as combustion chamber design progresses the static ratios are increasing with higher boost levels in production units.
4) Yes I believe that a dependable 180+ HP is possible without an intercooler. As far as the value, that is in the eye of the owner and what he or she wants out of the vehicle now or in the future.
5) The addition of more heat exchanger will certainly help coolant temp, and inadvertantly lower the deto level slightly but nowhere near as far as an efficient air to air intercooler would.
6) I believe hood vents will be benificial on a system with the compressor under the hood to reduce underhood temps. but would only slightly improve efficiency in cooling the intake tract.
7) Any performance increase will add stress to the components, but I feel
that turbo charging will be easier on engine components than other means of increased performance. IE. more cam timing or increased compression ratios etc. they all increase loads more as they also increase the RPM of peak power.
Thats enough for me tonite, time for bed. I hope this helps, or maybe it is all BS. But it is my opinion and I am intitled to that.
Thanks for asking
Keith
3) It is possible to get great results without an intercooler, however the (envelope) can be pushed more with an intercooler as the potential is greater with a given combination.
Given the compression ratio of the RX1 the boost levels obtainable without intercooling it will be lower than most autos, as they typically have lower compression ratios. allthough as combustion chamber design progresses the static ratios are increasing with higher boost levels in production units.
4) Yes I believe that a dependable 180+ HP is possible without an intercooler. As far as the value, that is in the eye of the owner and what he or she wants out of the vehicle now or in the future.
5) The addition of more heat exchanger will certainly help coolant temp, and inadvertantly lower the deto level slightly but nowhere near as far as an efficient air to air intercooler would.
6) I believe hood vents will be benificial on a system with the compressor under the hood to reduce underhood temps. but would only slightly improve efficiency in cooling the intake tract.
7) Any performance increase will add stress to the components, but I feel
that turbo charging will be easier on engine components than other means of increased performance. IE. more cam timing or increased compression ratios etc. they all increase loads more as they also increase the RPM of peak power.
Thats enough for me tonite, time for bed. I hope this helps, or maybe it is all BS. But it is my opinion and I am intitled to that.
Thanks for asking
Keith
Buckeye
You will not get that kind of HP out of the intercooler on the RX-1. Maybe with a water cooled system as you increase boost but not with an air system. And you'll still have to run high octain fuel.
You will not get that kind of HP out of the intercooler on the RX-1. Maybe with a water cooled system as you increase boost but not with an air system. And you'll still have to run high octain fuel.
