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New spring for Yamaha Secondary, no coil bind and better torsion

NOS-PRO

"The Burnman"
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Has anyone tested this spring with the COTC with stock viper? (BOP primary spring and shims). Should the Secondary still be shimmed with washers for 8DN belt while using this spring?

I believe @Allan is doing this with the COTC kit right now
 

NOS-PRO

"The Burnman"
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Received a pm from a user who I asked to do testing at 3-0...here are the results...

8JP belt, glare ice, orange spring set at 3-0
My speed is back to 123mph.
Took my temp gun with me this time.
Secondary 92°
Primary 109°
That's after 3 wot 1200-1500ft runs

This is pretty good and shows that 3-3 was just too stiff to twist up at. Now I know that the secondary with TP orange spring can be brought down to 3-0 without slipping the secondary. Temps are that of what I would call normal (hot tub temp).
 

Snowaddict

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'17 Sidewinder LTX-LE
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mstahl88
Received a pm from a user who I asked to do testing at 3-0...here are the results...

8JP belt, glare ice, orange spring set at 3-0
My speed is back to 123mph.
Took my temp gun with me this time.
Secondary 92°
Primary 109°
That's after 3 wot 1200-1500ft runs

This is pretty good and shows that 3-3 was just too stiff to twist up at. Now I know that the secondary with TP orange spring can be brought down to 3-0 without slipping the secondary. Temps are that of what I would call normal (hot tub temp).

What was your speed/results when wrapped at 2-3 or even 3-3?
Wish I had temp gun to try myself because last Sunday I tried mine (wrapped 2-3) and clutches were warmer than stock (which had been cool.) Not boiling, but but definitely hot. How much will air temps affect clutch temp? Air temp at the time was close to 45 degrees. Thanks
 

Kevin

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Dec 20, 2006
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Ottawa Canada
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Sidewinder
All great info
Is there a thread anywhere for speeds and set ups?
 

NOS-PRO

"The Burnman"
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What was your speed/results when wrapped at 2-3 or even 3-3?
Wish I had temp gun to try myself because last Sunday I tried mine (wrapped 2-3) and clutches were warmer than stock (which had been cool.) Not boiling, but but definitely hot. How much will air temps affect clutch temp? Air temp at the time was close to 45 degrees. Thanks

My last time running full speed was the 1st Ty ride in Upper Michigan (other than testing in my field at home). I am wrapped 3-3 with the TP Orange, Big Venom kit and Carbon Fiber belt (40c4313 8JP length) and ran many runs up to 128mph letting off because I know I was getting to that top end where my gearing of 21/41 would be death to my belt. A few hundred miles of hard acceleration, some tail flapping/cat-walking up the hills by Copper Harbor and a little off-trail fun. No issues and my clutches weren't warm at all. Temps there were single digits most of the time + or -

Trying all kinds of things to eliminate belt blowing, coil bind and hot clutches.
 

blevis213

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Start at 2-3 with your apex. 3-3 if you want more grunt corner to corner.
I blew a belt today at 100 mph. I have my spring at 3-2 do u think I should go to 3-1 or just blowing the belt was a fluke. Only 1000 miles on it. Everything is in alignment. Also would like more info on the clutch cover you have on your web.
 

rbell14

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Feb 23, 2012
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Plymouth, MI
I'm confused on this orange spring for Viper use. I have the big venom clutch kit and ran this spring most of this season with a 3-2 wrap, stock helix, air box mod, ulmer can and gates 8JP carbon fiber equinilant belt.

Was hitting rev limit at 75 MPH. Contacted shagman and he said the kit was designed for the midnight blue secondary spring. So I went back to that and sled runs great again.

Question is, do us Viper guys with mods want to run this spring. The message I got recently was run midnight blue at 6-1 wrap.
 
Last edited:

rbell14

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Plymouth, MI
Got my answers...

For Vipers, the Orange spring is designed to be used with stock clutch. If you have the big venom kit, you should be using the midnight blue spring in the secondary, not the orange spring.
 

murdered141

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2019 sidewinder xtx le, sleeping for now
Got my answers...

For Vipers, the Orange spring is designed to be used with stock clutch. If you have the big venom kit, you should be using the midnight blue spring in the secondary, not the orange spring.
Really...... Works great on turbo nytro's, Winder's and viper's
 

rbell14

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Really...... Works great on turbo nytro's, Winder's and viper's

Agree, it will work on several applications. When I spoke to Terry, he said the orange spring was not meant to go with the big venom kit on the Viper, he said use the midnight blue secondary spring that comes with the kit is this situation.

Maybe there is a way to adjust your way there, I was stuck at 75 MPH and rev limiter when I had orange spring and big venom kit. Since changing back to midnight blue secondary spring I'm much happier with performance.

Any questions, give Thunder a call. This was my experience.
 

NOS-PRO

"The Burnman"
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I blew a belt today at 100 mph. I have my spring at 3-2 do u think I should go to 3-1 or just blowing the belt was a fluke. Only 1000 miles on it. Everything is in alignment. Also would like more info on the clutch cover you have on your web.

You can bring it down to 3-1 ..... but blowing a belt at 1,000 miles is a fluke and belts can let go at anytime.

Our 911 covers are a nice piece.
Read the snow tech article below

911-5.jpg


The Tortured
Primary Clutch
While the snowmobile OEMs have continued to add horsepower, torque and displacement there continues to be a void in one very important area – the drive clutch. With perhaps the exception
of the latest drive clutches from Ski- Doo, the rest of our sleds are coming with drive clutches that are of the same basic design as what they had 20 years ago. Some have even used lighter
weight and weaker clutches to save money. We recently inspected a drive clutch from a brand new 2017 model that had accidentally been dropped on the floor, and it was SHOCKING to see
how thin the sheave was where a chunk had broken away. We now have engines producing 200 horsepower in stock form and up towards 400 horsepower when modified, all with pretty much the same
clutches they have had all along going back to when their machines had 50 to 75 horsepower. We are (trying) to run this 200 to 400 horsepower through a 10 or 12 pound clutch made from cast aluminum. These clutches are HIGHLY
overstressed units. Then consider the operating conditions. Extreme hot to extreme cold, heat and humidity, heavy pulling, constantly changing loads and engine rpms. There is a great deal of twisting,
flexing and distortion that takes place in a drive clutch. This is how you get cracked (or broken) clutch towers & spyders and accelerated wear in general. The OEM’s have done slow motion
photography on the loading and unloading of drive clutches and have made the comment to each other as to whether or not they should even be in the dyno room while this is going on. Now add to
this the torsional vibration from the constant firing of the engine as well as harmonics working up and down the crankshaft. The drive clutch acts as a sync or mass kit for
the harmonics. When you look at the whole picture and really add it up, it’s amazing the drive clutch lasts as long as it does. Most old timers can tell you about clutches they
have seen blow up, they often reference a hand grenade and for good reason. We’re talking damage to your machine and your personal safety.

Now that we have identified the problem, what can be done about it? Installing a complete aftermarket billet clutch is one option, but will usually run you over $1,500 to do so. Another option is to beef up the stock clutch with a 911 Response cover. Offered for the primary clutches from Arctic Cat, Arctic Cat Team, Polaris and Yamaha, the 911 Response cover is a machined cover assembly made of high grade billet aluminum, not cast like
the OEM piece, which is about 5 times the strength of your stock clutch cover. This cover ties all of the towers (in the movable sheave) together into a rigid assembly to limit the twisting and flexing.
One of the best features is how the 911 cover places a large melonite sleeve over the main shaft in your drive clutch to increase the diameter and the length where necessary. Sliding up and down this over-sized shaft is
a large Oilite bronze bushing installed into the billet cover. This does several things – it increases the bearing surface by 250%, but more importantly it keeps everything right on the centerline of the
crank and holds it in place. As the drive clutch is opening and closing this large bushing sliding on the larger diameter sleeve helps keep the entire clutch, from stationary sheave to moveable
sheave to towers, in much better alignment with less flexing and less twisting. This translates to better power transfer, less binding and greater durability of the clutch components.
Another nice feature of the 911 Response cover is the front belt adjuster that comes with it. This makes it easy to get your belt side clearance down to .010 to .015 like it should be. The 911
covers for the Arctic Cat and Polaris also have three large vents machined into the cover for increased air flow and cooling.

With the 911 Response cover
installed you now have a heavy duty,
high performance clutch that will work
better and last longer. What does all of
this technology cost? $249.95 available
from Thunder Products, Inc. Call them
at 906-484-1650 or visit
www.thunderproductsclutching.com
34 SnowTech • December 2017
 

NOS-PRO

"The Burnman"
Vendor
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
6,540
Location
Newton, Wisconsin
Country
USA
Snowmobile
Sidewinder, SR Viper XTX, SR Viper XTX, 2016 Apex XTX and Pro-Line Pro Stock 1000
Got my answers...

For Vipers, the Orange spring is designed to be used with stock clutch. If you have the big venom kit, you should be using the midnight blue spring in the secondary, not the orange spring.

Really...... Works great on turbo nytro's, Winder's and viper's

Agree, it will work on several applications. When I spoke to Terry, he said the orange spring was not meant to go with the big venom kit on the Viper, he said use the midnight blue secondary spring that comes with the kit is this situation.

Maybe there is a way to adjust your way there, I was stuck at 75 MPH and rev limiter when I had orange spring and big venom kit. Since changing back to midnight blue secondary spring I'm much happier with performance.

Any questions, give Thunder a call. This was my experience.

Just to make things clear....the orange spring will work on sleds currently running the pink, yellow or white Yamaha spring. If you have a clutch kit, please call us first to make sure the spring will work for you.

Correct, the orange spring works well on the RX1's, Apex, Nytro and Vipers with stock clutching. They use the Pink or white spring and our orange works very well to replace these springs and not have coil bind.

Turbo or Supercharged sleds
The orange secondary works well on the boosted Viper sleds running the TP big venom kit as the sled with the more power cannot use the blue secondary spring as it is too soft for the turbo applications. So the orange spring needs to be used.
 


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