New to me '08 Apex RTX, need some general setup suggestions

[smacho]

Re: Limiter Strap

2 replies here --

Ok the limiter strap has 5 postions to set it. 5 makes the strap as short as it can go and 1 make the stap as long as it goes ( for wheelies). From the factory it's set on 3, I simply found I had ski lift in the corners especially so I tightened it to position 4 settled right down. Try it.

#1 - It has been in hole #4 (one hole open above bolt) for three years. Good pressure on skis, handles well. Read on the form to set it all the way up for fresh deep snow -- have not had a chance to test that yet.

YES, that's the sled. Just got back from a 110 mile ride from Cottonwood to Jackpot Junction and back, and it beat the poop out of me... I loosened the front track shock to minimal tension, put the rear springs on full soft, backed off the compression dampner...I left the coupling to near full as you had set it, limiter strap is in #2? From the looks of it. I've got about 200 miles on it now and I'm not very happy, ready to look for a phazer...It's been on it's side 3 times due to ill handling, make that horrible handling. It feels as if it's not using hardly any of the rear suspension travel, very stiff. Was going to sell the viper, but I actually like riding that. The snow conditions weren't good today since it was hot and mushy, then got hard later tonight, so the ski's were darting badly. Somone needs to help me or it's gone, worst handling sled I've ever been on... BTW do you have the fox float pump for me? I kinda need it. Also, what kind of exhaust is on this, man it's loud.

#2 - Mine only became ride-able after the shock revalve. I could not find any combination of settings that worked on the factory shock. It really changed the nature of the ride.

 

[jgustman]

maybe it was just the conditions yesterday, temps in the low 40's, snow was heavy/melting and things really went to crap after it began to cool down. I had the front skid spring set with very little tension, limiter strap was one hole from full loose, rear torsion springs were at medium, compression dampner at 11 clicks from full firm. It rode like a brick, tippy, darty, dumped it in a corner trying to slow and turn quick, the ski's just dug in and nearly threw me, then swung the other way and fell on it's side.. Wanted to call a friend and come get me it beat me up so much in 55 miles. On the way home I put the rear torsion springs on soft, compression clicker about 19 clicks toward soft, got a little softer and could feel the suspension traveling some at least, but the skid still rides like it may as well be bolted in like a hardtail in small trail junk. Is this skid suppose to squat when you sit on it, because it doesn't, even with springs at full soft, you have to jump on it to get it to move, and then it squats maybe 2 inches or so. I'm so ticked off at this thing after riding yeseterday, I'd trade it for a phazer in a heartbeat. It did only one thing well, accelerating hard in a straight line. The rest just sucked, anyone have a phazer they want to trade me....Why yamaha built a sled like this is beyond me. I'd slap the engineers of the skis and suspension. If I new a pair of skis and a shock revalve would fix the handling/ride issues maybe it would be ok. I don't even want to ride it again at this point.

 

[yamy]

i put the shock pump in the back of the seat when i traded, who knows what happened to it then,and the exhaust is sno stuff,

 

[smacho]

Yami, I am wondering how you put 3,800 miles on the stock setup?

Much like "jgustman" I was ready to trade mine for a moto-ski after the first hundred miles. I bought mine new and was not happy. I still think someone at Yamaha should explain what they had in mind when putting a single stage shock in that skid.

 

[Ak Yammy]

Don't give up on it yet!! These are awesome machines when you take the time to set them up. As said by others the stock valving on the rear shocks is just about unrideale. Feels rough on almost every setting yet will bottom like no tomorrow-revalve is must unless you are only on groomed highways. I would definately suck that limiter down and look at a carbide/ski change. Also get the air pump and see what your fronts are set at could also make a difference in handling.

 

[TJRTX]

Number one mod to make is to skis.Just my opinion,but snow-trackers make the biggest improvement on this sled than all other mods combined. Totally takes away darting,unstable, nervous, front end.And are the best carbide for accurate steering out there.Some say too aggressive, but i totally disagree. If you ride your sleds hard,these are the only way to make them bite in corners, with any pace.Yes there is some ski lift , but you learn too live with it for the better steering. You do need to revalve rear shock for best perfomance.If the engine braking is bothering you try not to completely let off throttle coming into turns,as this reduces some of the braking effect. I've learned to love the engine breaking as a good way to get the back end around in corners, if you like to ride like that. I would give it one more chance. If still not happy, the sled might just not fit you.Good luck.

 

[Rockmeister]

Have a friend that took his Hauck exhaust off, was tired of the headaches from it.
They are definitely loud and they have a much wider range of RPMs that "drone".

My Attak shocks were valved by Bruce at Pioneer, he did an incredible job on them.
Can honestly say it is THE single best suspension set-up I have ever had on a sled.
It is unbelievably comfortable in the stutters.
(They disappear)
And still does incredibly well in moguls!

It even eats up hard hits.
Has bottomed a few times, but nothing major.

Usually, suspension is a compromise of some sort, do well in small stuff, not so well in the big stuff.
This suspension does most everything well.
(Prior to this sled, I would have stated that this wide a range of suspension performance wasn't even possible, if I wasn't riding it myself.)
It surprises the heck out of me!
All in a very good way.
(I got the sled from charger0689, he had done all the set-up prior to me getting it & had done WELL!)

Needless to say, I believe spending some hard-earned money with Pioneer is money well spent.

I even have an extra set of GYTR shocks that I COULD put on my Attak, however the Pioneer valved basic front shocks do SO well, I wouldn't think of changing them!
(Don't wanna mess with a good thing! lol)
(But I might send the GYTRs to Bruce to work his magic on them...)

As Giddy up go stated, the Duece bars will eliminate the darting for you.
Can also recommend the Snowtrackers, they do NOT dart & will corner like you won't believe, even with stock skis.

 

[jgustman]

Funny, I sent a pm asking the previous owner how the @#%$ he rode it 3800 miles with the rear suspension that way also.. I am interested in different ski's, I tried slydogs on my RX-1 and did wonders for it, will probably go with them again. I suppose I can suck in the limiter to get rid of some of the tippy issue, but that just puts more weight on the skis that already have too much weight on them from the way it acts when letting off the throttle. If the revalve makes the small to medium bumps disappear, that would make me happy. It's still to heavy and tippy on sidehills and corners compared to any other sled I've owned. You can't throw your weight to one side and expect much of anything from what I've seen so far compared to riding the viper.

 

[jgustman]

Yami, I am wondering how you put 3,800 miles on the stock setup?

Much like "jgustman" I was ready to trade mine for a moto-ski after the first hundred miles. I bought mine new and was not happy. I still think someone at Yamaha should explain what they had in mind when putting a single stage shock in that skid.

Someone should send the bills for MRI's and painkillers to Yamaha. Class action lawsuit for making a suspension that causes back injuries. No joke.

 

[Rockmeister]

Someone should send the bills for MRI's and painkillers to Yamaha. Class action lawsuit for making a suspension that causes back injuries. No joke.

I have some serious reservations about this general attitude.

Personally, I don't like paying for others mistakes & this kind of "sue everybody" attitude.
(Not that you particularly may have this attitude, unfortunately, it is prevalent.)
The real truth is, we all pay for the lawsuits when we purchase a sled. and/or vehicle of any type.
100%, (Yes, every single penny) of EVERY lawsuit is paid for by the end consumer of every product.
This is much like the myth of a "corporate tax".
There is really no such thing, YOU pay for the "corporate" tax when you buy that companies products, it is built into the sales price, same as you pay for every lawsuit.

You, me and everyone else on this site has paid for every single lawsuit, when we purchased our sleds (& other toys), and whenever we purchase parts and accessories.

Personally would rather have that money to put into my sled.

 

[Rockmeister]

Funny, I sent a pm asking the previous owner how the @#%$ he rode it 3800 miles with the rear suspension that way also.. I am interested in different ski's, I tried slydogs on my RX-1 and did wonders for it, will probably go with them again. I suppose I can suck in the limiter to get rid of some of the tippy issue, but that just puts more weight on the skis that already have too much weight on them from the way it acts when letting off the throttle. If the revalve makes the small to medium bumps disappear, that would make me happy. It's still to heavy and tippy on sidehills and corners compared to any other sled I've owned. You can't throw your weight to one side and expect much of anything from what I've seen so far compared to riding the viper.

There are multiple things that you can do to fix the issues you are having.

The "tippyness":
1) Lower the front suspension until the A arms are almost flat.
This lowers the front suspension & the CG at the same time.
2) Have found the 13mm Sway Bar from Pioneer to help quite a bit.
3) Eliminate the darting you see in a straight line, or that darting will greatly contribute to and even cause "tippyness" in the corners.

Use Snowtrackers or Duallys to eliminate the darting.

(If your sled darts in the straights, it is just as likely to dart in the corners, and some of the darting will be to the inside, causing unpredictable ski-lift, an unreliable track through the corner(s), and an unnerving experience in general.)

My Attak will corner much faster than any Viper I have run with.

You didn't mention what the sled was doing when you "let off the throttle".
I suspect it "hunts" for a second or so when you chop the throttle.
(Tries to go where it wants rather than where you want it to go.)
This is caused by two things combined.
Darting & weight transfer.
Eliminate the darting first, then minimize the weight transfer.
You will then find the sled to be very predictable & user-friendly.
(IE Fun to ride!)

You really only want noticeable weight transfer when you slide way back on the seat AND are under hard acceleration. (IE Racing)
The rest of the time, a lot of weight transfer just makes your sleds handling unpredictable, & your sled hard to ride.

Other than saying that you don't like the rear suspension, you didn't give many details, so can't make many solid recommendations.
Can say, you won't go wrong with Pioneers valving.
Fill them in with your weight & riding style, Bruce will do well for you.
You will like how well the rear suspension performs after the valving.

You might give more info as to how the rear suspension acts, that helps point out what needs to be done.

Hope this helps!

Rock

 

[smacho]

What is still difficult for me to wrap my head around is that someone at Yamaha choose to put a single stage shock in that skid. I recall the '08 ads for the RTX saying something like the suspension is setup to "pop" over bumps with "squirt of the trottle." My guess is that somewhere someone had a good day on some snow-cross course with that setup and then it was adapted to a production sled. The production cost of a multi-stage shock vs a single stage shock is little (compared to the price of new Apex). I do not think cost-cutting was reason for the single stage shock. I also think they sent it out the door without ever putting a real rider on a real trail for even 1 hour. (If they had, it would never had been produced as it was)

I am really left astonsihed that such a badly performing suspension could leave the factory. & it all seems to come down to the single stage shock. I remember how bad it was before the revalve -- The good news is that it is not difficult or expensive to fix.

 

[jgustman]

Someone should send the bills for MRI's and painkillers to Yamaha. Class action lawsuit for making a suspension that causes back injuries. No joke.

I have some serious reservations about this general attitude.

Personally, I don't like paying for others mistakes & this kind of "sue everybody" attitude.
(Not that you particularly may have this attitude, unfortunately, it is prevalent.)
The real truth is, we all pay for the lawsuits when we purchase a sled. and/or vehicle of any type.
100%, (Yes, every single penny) of EVERY lawsuit is paid for by the end consumer of every product.
This is much like the myth of a "corporate tax".
There is really no such thing, YOU pay for the "corporate" tax when you buy that companies products, it is built into the sales price, same as you pay for every lawsuit.

You, me and everyone else on this site has paid for every single lawsuit, when we purchased our sleds (& other toys), and whenever we purchase parts and accessories.

Personally would rather have that money to put into my sled.

I'm not the sue happy kind either, and don't like people who do. What I'm saying is go make the suspension engineers at yamaha ride this thing for 200 miles and see how they like it.

For general trail riding it acts like a hardtail harley, yes it smoothes out some when riding over 50 mph because you are skipping over the bumps. I believe it is just the shock valving. The skid sinks about 2 1/2 inches with the springs set to soft when I sit on it...Just no action in the suspension after that when riding slow.

Thanks for all the input. I believe getting the COG lower will help. but don't want to lose the transfer. The thing spins enough as it is.

 

[Rockmeister]

What I'm saying is go make the suspension engineers at yamaha ride this thing for 200 miles and see how they like it.

The skid sinks about 2 1/2 inches with the springs set to soft when I sit on it...Just no action in the suspension after that when riding slow.

Thanks for all the input. I believe getting the COG lower will help. but don't want to lose the transfer. The thing spins enough as it is.

You are welcome for the input!

Hahahaha! Would love to see them riding it!

Your set-in is about right, so that means your spring pre-load is set about right.
Most of the rest of the action comes from the shock itself.
Get the shock fixed & you will like the ride.
(Let them know it is too stiff for you now.)

Would suggest trying reducing the transfer.
Good thing is that most all the settings to fix the front are free.
(With the possible exception of having the shocks done & the sway bar.)
Changing the transfer is free & can always be changed back easily.
If the sled is predictable, you can go much faster through the corners.
As for the spin, you may either have to live with it, or add traction.
(Personally would much rather have the spin & the sled be predictable, it is so much more enjoyable.)
(You may also find that it won't spin much more than it does now.)

My experience is that you should get all the shocks done, as they most likely have quite a bit of water in them now.
(Snow gets past the wipers & turns into water trying to mix with the oil.)
Have always been amazed at the amount of "Milk Shake" oil in the shocks from water...

Make sure you fix the darting no matter what, or you won't likely be happy with any of it.
Darting makes the sleds unpredictable.

Rock

 

[apex55]

from the sound of your post im thinkin u bought my old sled, let me guess from action sports?

It's been on it's side 3 times due to ill handling, make that horrible handling. It feels as if it's not using hardly any of the rear suspension travel, very stiff. Was going to sell the viper, but I actually like riding that. The snow conditions weren't good today since it was hot and mushy, then got hard later tonight, so the ski's were darting badly. Somone needs to help me or it's gone, worst handling sled I've ever been on... BTW do you have the fox float pump for me? I kinda need it. Also, what kind of exhaust is on this, man it's loud.

Stupid question here. If it's that tippy are you sure the front shocks are good? If you blew a shock and are only relying on the springs!!! Do the bounce test like on a car.

Has the spring been upgraded to a heavier one in the rear? Maybe to much for your weight. Also have you checked that rear is adjusted properly for sag?

If you are not used to the engine breaking the sled will be real squirrley when coming off the throttle in loose pack. You will need to learn to feather the throttle.

Change the skiis or do the shim process to the yammi skiis shaper bars.