Nytro with +4.5" front versus ProCross

[couch]

Anyone ride a Nytro with mo'd front geometry and compared it to Cat ProCross? Curious as to how the refined geometry compares to the "new" Yamaha chassis?

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

While the "forward" front ends make the nytro a lot better it is still a bandaid for the problem at hand. It is a problem that we all make worse by dropping lots of weight off the back because its easy to lose there. The weigh distribution on the nytro is so forward weighted it makes it more difficult to ride really aggressively. The new chassis looks to have the motor hung lower in the chassis. The battery is in the back. The fuel tank sits low versus the current chassis having all the fuel up high. It should work great but only time will tell.

 

[Sportsterdanne]

The new chassi have the engine higher.

 

[yzviper366]

While the "forward" front ends make the nytro a lot better it is still a bandaid for the problem at hand. It is a problem that we all make worse by dropping lots of weight off the back because its easy to lose there. The weigh distribution on the nytro is so forward weighted it makes it more difficult to ride really aggressively. The new chassis looks to have the motor hung lower in the chassis. The battery is in the back. The fuel tank sits low versus the current chassis having all the fuel up high. It should work great but only time will tell.

I disagree. I haven't rode a pro cross but i have ridden "gods gift to snowmobiling" the pro rmk. And IMO i would take my nytro over pro any day. It side hills great and is more predictable than any pro i have ridden. The only one that came close is the 2013 pro. The only thing better i have found is the nytro will work you harder than the pro will and that is a weight issue.

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

The new chassi have the engine higher.

I would agree after looking at some more pictures. It does seem as if it lays flatter in the chassis though.

I guess a lot of it would come down to riding style. The Skinz front end made my sled much more manageable however when you ride very agressively as I do the front end weight bias is very noticeable with the Nytro.

 

[towerrigger]

Last year I had a Ulmer turbo setup with the skinz front end. I thought the front end was a waste of money. I have since gone to a MCX turbo, putting some of that weight at the back of the sled with a stock fuel tank. Now it's a different machine. My 1100T doesn't necessarily handle better than my Nytro now, it just feels lighter.

 

[couch]

Seems to me that majority of the issue with the Nytro has more to do with where the weight is versus the actual weight .... everything is heavy when stuck - even on old style single cylinder Tundra or Bravo!

Agree that its easy to drop skid weight which in turn moves balance point of sled further to the front .... would be interesting to see the results if the following changes were made ... 1. revised front end (4+ forward) 2. revise exhaust to free up some room to reposition oil canister and battery to under the seat 3. rework fuel tank so its under seat and lower 4. drop the bulkhead cooler and add cooler at end of tunnel 5. lightweight skid and boards 6. steering post relocate

1. is an easy fix
2. is more difficult
3. would be easy provided 2. was successful
4. easy fix
5. easy fix
6. easy fix

Realistically, I can't see the Viper being significantly less weight than comparable Nytro (i.e. same length skid & equivalent shock package) so the benefit would likely be due to longitudinal balance of the sled and centre of gravity. I do like the idea of a tapered tunnel though ...

 

[Off Trail Mike]

Couch:

I have the skinz front end on my 153 Nytro and worked hard to get it to 565lbs RTR while keeping some balance on the weight reductions, but its rear biased by at least 20lbs for sure.

No seat time on the 2013 Proclimb/ProCross yet, but I can make comparisons to a 2013 144 Assault and 154 Summit XM. The 144 Polaris, which is a ball to drive due to weight, seems to be more comfortable banking wide turns. Somehow I can turn my Nytro/Skinz way tighter with confidence. The Summit is crazy fun, but so light that sometimes it tends to buck me when banking, something the weight of the Nytro seems to prevent. Like YzViper said, our Nytro's are just a bit more predictable. That said, maybe with more seat time I would change my riding style to adapt to each sled, which normally is the case..

On the discussion of weight distribution, its hard to disagree with the fact that we all end up taking more weight off the back while leaving more of it up front, but I would add this.

Every time I bring my sled back to the garage and turn on the heat, I hang the rear bumper from the ceiling and put 5 big platic tote lids underneath my sled to catch the melting ice/snow. The vast majority of water (weight) melts off the back, maybe 10lbs, which helps with distribution cause its there when you ride. I also run a tunnel pack and rotopax gas can on the back which further moves weight balance to the rear of the sled. They all help.

The Nytro is not perfect, but putting it on a diet and addressing the front end goes a long way to making it a respectable powder sled.

Oh yeah, totally agree with you on a tapered tunnel, I would add both vertically and for the tipped tunnel extension. I find my legs always catch my tunnel just above my boots which is annoying, and the taper out back would help with an undertunnel exhaust setup. I run the Cat skid, and there is no room for an undertunnel, which would go a long way towards giving tunnel real estate back to help with the balance.

Still won't be trading it in next year for the Viper.

OTM

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

Just one more bit to add on this as I was thinking about it while riding today. Your normal riding conditions I think play a lot into the front end weight of the nytro. The conditions were kind of strange today. One minute there would be bottomless powder and the next only eight to twelve on a very solid base. It is pretty easy to throw around in the bottomless but the effort to get the same results in the marginal situations was greatly increased.

I told myself my goal last summer was going to be to lose or redistribute 30 lbs off the front end but I did a turbo instead. I think I am going to make that my goal again this summer and hopefully I get it done.

I would say though to lose the radiator and leave the front bulkhead cooler alone. The radiator is so inefficient with the stock headlight in there that would be the way to go.

 

[LSXM3]

 

Oh yeah, totally agree with you on a tapered tunnel, I would add both vertically and for the tipped tunnel extension. I find my legs always catch my tunnel just above my boots which is annoying, and the taper out back would help with an undertunnel exhaust setup. I run the Cat skid, and there is no room for an undertunnel, which would go a long way towards giving tunnel real estate back to help with the balance.

Still won't be trading it in next year for the Viper.

OTM

Why no room? I am running a 2.5" peak track and a cat skid and have no issues at all

 

[couch]

Just one more bit to add on this as I was thinking about it while riding today. Your normal riding conditions I think play a lot into the front end weight of the nytro. The conditions were kind of strange today. One minute there would be bottomless powder and the next only eight to twelve on a very solid base. It is pretty easy to throw around in the bottomless but the effort to get the same results in the marginal situations was greatly increased..

Typical conditions for our region ... total mix of hard pack, heavy wet slush, occasional powder, and lots of rocks (always) .... most days I ride the Phazer Mtn given the variance in snow conditions and wait till there is lots of deep snow and / powder for the Nytro .... the phazer seems to be better balanced (spindles are positioned about 4" further ahead of clutch compared to nytro) but its still a little top heavy .... lowered exhaust and tank would be the answer ....

I'm at sea level and mostly off trail riding so Nytro power with 144 x 1.75 Backcountry track is perfect .... only wish the sled was better balanced.

 

[birkebeiner]

Weight and CoG aside, does anyone know the sweet spot for the optimal front end for the Nytro, especially for trail riding, or if you want a 50/50 trail / off trail sled?

Is it Skinz with stock spindles, the Yamaha XC race front end incl the spindles, the "PRO RMK" front end geometry? Or something else? And how much more forward are each of these?

Does the the Yamaha race front end change anything else in the geometry than just bring the spindles moe forward. I know it includes a new sub frame as well. And does these spindles drop the front end a bit lower compared to the stock spindles.

 

[Sportsterdanne]

Center of driveshaft to ski bolt.
Stock nytro 66 cm or 26 "
 Pro rmk 75 cm or 29,5 " 

 

[couch]

Would be curious to compare other new 600 / 800 class sled specs for distances from front end to clutch / drive axel / etc. Seems to me that this is the biggest factor with Nytro handling. Maybe a chart for comparison purposes with ranking of handling. Wonder whats the distances for the centre from ProCross / Viper clutch centre to ski bolt centre compared to current Nytro measurement.

 

[birkebeiner]

Center of driveshaft to ski bolt.
Stock nytro 66 cm or 26 "
Pro rmk 75 cm or 29,5 " 

That's 3,5" forward. Isn't the Skinz Concept front end 4,5" forward? What other geometry changes does it bring?