Out the hood cold air intake!

[KnappAttack]

Havent any of you guys just tried running with the Sidepanel and airbox lid off? NosPro did that first week he had his sled. Easy reversible experiment.

I tried with no filter on the stock box, and then tried no filter and no airbox lid. Neither changed the AF ratio using the 270 or 290 tunes. I really wanted to use the stock airbox as the intake temps are much cooler using the stock airbox, but obviously its not flowing any better with no filter or no filter and no lid. The stock box just doesn't flow as much as aftermarket I guess even though it has a cooler intake charge, perhaps it starves enough air that the turbo just doesn't spool as hard.

 

[cannondale27]

I tried with no filter on the stock box, and then tried no filter and no airbox lid. Neither changed the AF ratio using the 270 or 290 tunes. I really wanted to use the stock airbox as the intake temps are much cooler using the stock airbox, but obviously its not flowing any better with no filter or no filter and no lid. The stock box just doesn't flow as much as aftermarket I guess even though it has a cooler intake charge, perhaps it starves enough air that the turbo just doesn't spool as hard.

Take the sidepanel off and no lid. That would be close to what Beerman is suggesting.

 

[kinger]

Hi Kinger,where did you get an amount of weight of 17lbs from? I have not seen weight numbers,other than weighing the complete sled.

I weighed my hood. as you take it off and it was 17lbs. My apex cr racing hood was 4lbs. There is a plastic tube snake thing under there as the air for the motor comes from behind the windshield then feeds the box on the clutch guard, its screwed on to the bottom of the hood. If you remove that and weigh it supposedly its around 8lbs. I haven't removed mine yet but I will eventually and get a final weight.

Knapp - have you weighed anything or just making assumptions that plastic is same weight as air?

 

[KnappAttack]

I weighed my hood. as you take it off and it was 17lbs. My apex cr racing hood was 4lbs. There is a plastic tube snake thing under there as the air for the motor comes from behind the windshield then feeds the box on the clutch guard, its screwed on to the bottom of the hood. If you remove that and weigh it supposedly its around 8lbs. I haven't removed mine yet but I will eventually and get a final weight.

Knapp - have you weighed anything or just making assumptions that plastic is same weight as air?

I've weighed a whole lot of parts over the years and can confidently tell ya there's not 8 lbs to be lost just by swapping to a CAI. The plastic little piece that gets removed from under the hood does not weigh anything and the complete airbox is even well less than 5 lbs. complete. The CAI tube, elbow and filter weigh just as much as whats getting replaced for stack parts. Not even worth weighing the difference actually, someone is giving you false information telling you there is 8 lbs to be shed. Maybe on the old first gen ProCross, but its not there on the newer Winder.

 

[snowbeast]

I don't know what your talking about. You said CAI would save 8lbs. CAI saves nothing for weight even taking off the little bit of plastic on the hood. The airbox and CAI is a wash weight wise or very close to it. Not even worth talking about.




Pete, I was seeing 12.8-12.9 AFR on the data logging with the filter out the front of the hood using the Hurricane SMM replacement trail muffler on 270 or 290 tune, with filter inside the hood sucking the warm under hood air was 12.2-12.3 AFR.

Everyone keeps calling them cold air intakes which they are not when they are under the hood, mine is stuffed right into vent screen and the thermometer will read 100 F. right at the base of the filter on a 28 F day. That's the reason I extended it into the actual cold air right out in front of the under hood vent.

Wow,thats quite a change in A/F ratio.

 

[Beerman]

I weighed my hood. as you take it off and it was 17lbs. My apex cr racing hood was 4lbs. There is a plastic tube snake thing under there as the air for the motor comes from behind the windshield then feeds the box on the clutch guard, its screwed on to the bottom of the hood. If you remove that and weigh it supposedly its around 8lbs. I haven't removed mine yet but I will eventually and get a final weight.

Knapp - have you weighed anything or just making assumptions that plastic is same weight as air?

I'm with Knapp on this, let's move on and talk about things that matter.

43.62 oz = Stock airbox, filter and plenum (or whatever it is that bolts under the hood)
20 oz = Average CAI setup
23 oz = CAI saves

 

[stevewithOCD]

$200 for 23.62 oz. & warm air.
That's roughly a pound and a half. And warm air.
HMMM.....someone needs to get some cardboard & duct tape & design an actual "cold air" intake......UNDER THE HOOD!
Sticking the filter out of the hood is great in the mountains. It looks douchey on the trails.....

 

[Beerman]

$200 for 23.62 oz. & warm air.
That's roughly a pound and a half. And warm air.
HMMM.....someone needs to get some cardboard & duct tape & design an actual "cold air" intake......UNDER THE HOOD!
Sticking the filter out of the hood is great in the mountains. It looks douchey on the trails.....

Even with the warm air it does increase HP significantly - with the right tune at least.

Maybe I can mock it up, I'm no fabricator, but I feel this is something a lot of us would buy from someone like BOP.

 

[kinger]

I'm with Knapp on this, let's move on and talk about things that matter.

43.62 oz = Stock airbox, filter and plenum (or whatever it is that bolts under the hood)
20 oz = Average CAI setup
23 oz = CAI saves

View attachment 140356 View attachment 140357 View attachment 140358 View attachment 140359

Thanks!! More fake news on Snowest...

Also agree on hot air intake. Thanks guys

 

[Blue Dave]

I was thinking like Mike that the CAI intake compared to the stock set-up shouldn't amount to any weight savings worth mentioning. I was about to start weighing parts for good bear drinking project but Art beat me to it (probably both the weighing and the beer drinking).

Mike's testing results surprised me because I would have thought that my CAI filter pressed right up against the air inlet screen would have resulted in a colder air intake charge than the stock set-up, especially at high speed. I like Art's idea of sort sort of a barrier or plenum to direct only outside air and not under hood air into the CAI filter.

 

[KnappAttack]

I was thinking like Mike that the CAI intake compared to the stock set-up shouldn't amount to any weight savings worth mentioning. I was about to start weighing parts for good bear drinking project but Art beat me to it (probably both the weighing and the beer drinking). Mike's testing results surprised me because I would have thought that my CAI filter pressed right up against the air inlet screen would have resulted in a colder air intake charge than the stock set-up, especially at high speed. I like Art's idea of sort sort of a barrier or plenum to direct only outside air and not under hood air into the CAI filter.

Imagine for a minute that at 270 HP level 9000 RPM the intake is consuming 350 SCFM air going thru the filter. There's no way that is all coming thru just that one small vent up front.

I noticed that half of my filer is filled with black belt dust, know where that is coming from? Yep, its coming from that 150-180 degree clutch and under hood area. My intake thermometer at the filter says its sucking 100 degree air right into what some call the "CAI" filter even though its right against the mesh screen.

350 SCFM is a lot of consumption into the intake. IMO I want to run thru the complete stock setup and make it flow better thru that box and filter. I have an idea for an air horn that may make the stock system better. Will see this coming winter.
Can get that stock mesh vent getting cool air back to the clutches as well.

One things for certain, the way the tuned sleds are popping belts when riding even semi-aggressive is something needs to be done to fix all these issues were having with them being inconsistent, running hot intakes, blowing belts and eating rollers.

 

[Beerman]

Mike has a point here about the size of that lone intake vent - I mocked up an "airbox" using poster board (since it allowed easier bends) and it didn't take long to realize there isn't a lot of room with the intake charge tube right there. After I was 1/2 way done mocking it up I realized the point Mike just made - this engine consumes a lot of air at high rpm/boost and the "airbox" I was making was looking smaller and smaller. Unless someone smarter than me (and there are plenty) can figure out a way to increase the size of the "airbox" idea I no longer think it will work for us.

I'm back to looking at adding even more vents to get air in and OUT of the engine bay and try to keep the surrounding air a lot cooler in there. Right now I have a lot of vents added on the clutch side and a couple on the exhaust side. I'm looking at the plastic behind the intercooler as another big area - but that would be taking in air that has already been warmed up some by the intercooler - and possibly hurt the flow of the air though the intercooler if there is engineering behind how the air moves under there.

 

[Dieselxtx]

Can it be turned and be an under hood cold air kit?

I am running TD tunes and I offer both out the hood and underhood options on eBay.

 

[snowbeast]

Has anyone run a make up outside filter,that comes out the bottom,like our cat procross filters used to?

 

[Beerman]

Has anyone run a make up outside filter,that comes out the bottom,like our cat procross filters used to?

Knapp did but found it leaned out the tune too much for his comfort - maybe once GAP releases the fine tuning feature we can add a little fuel and make this work - other option would be for TD and Hurricane to offer tunes specific for it. I would have thought that any CAI out the hood would do the same thing, but none of the guys with the filter out the top like @Dieselxtx makes have said anything negative.

https://ty4stroke.com/threads/cooli...-when-warm-out-hot.151838/page-6#post-1420180