Real Clutch Temps Data

[stevewithOCD]

I'm up in Maine for week trying 3 different belts with my FLUKE temp gun.

SLED:
-stock
-96 studs up middle
-165 pound rider with 30 pounds extra gear

CLUTCH: as of now 1-7-18

PRIMARY:
-Thunder Products Orange spring with Glide washers
-TP rollers
-TP 911 adjustable cover
-TP Heavy Hitter weights. 3/4 in heel, 3/8 aluminum bolt & steel washer mid, no tip weight

SECONDARY:
-TP Orange spring set at 1&3 or 40 degrees
-TP rollers
-TP 33/35 helix
-OSP adjuster

New 8DN & 8JP belts washed. Gates Carbon washed with 300 miles on it.
Broke in belts easy then beat the hell out of them in trails for 20 miles before long pulls then measured primary, secondary & belt temps with-in minute of stopping. I have not dialed in weights yet since i haven't chosen my belt of preference yet. I will dial in RPM's later.

Gates Carbon (the 850 killer)
-Primary=150
-Secondary=130
-Belt=175
-RPM=9100
8DN (old reliable)
-P=135
-S=125
-B=145
-RPM=8900
8JP (dirty soot belt)
-P=140
-S=130
-B=165
-RPM=9000

OK, these were hard run numbers. I beat the SNOT out of them. Although i don't run belts this hard normally, i am trying to get best/worst case scenarios.
Please don't tell me how my belt life will increase if i drive slower & easier. I bought a 200 HP sled to use ALL 200 HP! AND I DID!

ANALYSIS:
The Carbon was nasty on the bottom end absolutely destroying buds' 850. The 850 is supposed to be the fastest spooling & quickest stock sled ever built & I KILLED it. My sled is a corner to corner beast with this belt. I can jettison by him after every corner BEFORE the next corner came up.
I really started to TRUST this belt until..........it BLEW!
Yep at 200 miles it shredded. Looked like my dog ate a bag of Black Licorice then puked it up. Just not as slimy. Obviously at 175 degrees it was the hottest belt of the 3. For MY sled & application, this belt is not a good choice. I'm sure with a box of parts it can be made to work, but i don't have a box of parts. It's soft & is probably great for drag racing, but not for aggressive trail riders. Saw 105 MPH with more to go, but ran out of real estate. It was running about 9100 rpm's on top.
The 8DN seemed to have all 3 temps running near 140. That shows me equal tension on sheaves. I couldn't get a top end number, but it felt surprisingly good bottom to top. I will run it another full day, but very little loss of performance & it looks FREAKIN' NEW! And it INSTALLS easy!
The 8JP has been in for 2 days. I now have a black belly pan. Yesterday it pulled almost as hard as Carbon, but today it already feels slower. Different snow also so tomorrow i should know more. Also i let bud ride my 'Winder as i'm on the Apex so a day of testing is lost.

I will run 8DN for a whole day. Then i hope to put in stock clutching & run these 2 belts. Don't have a Carbon belt, but i do have 20,000,000 pieces of one.

NOTE: With this helix at 40 degrees it definitely runs better then at 60. Temps way down & rpm's more consistent. I think going below 40 will gain some, but lose to much back shifting so i won't even try it.

That's it for now. I'll report more Sunday

 

[snowbeast]

Great info steve,are you in millie now,is that your home base too? Hope to meet you some day,while you are up there,its not far to patten or millie,so far I have run both 8dn and 8jp,and I get best performance out of 8jp,but 8dn still will work as back up.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Started in Millinocket. I'm in Rangeley now. Will be up in Millinocket tomorrow then maybe the County next.
With this set up, i didn't lose much with 8DN, but will line up against 850 if possible with each belt.
The 8DN so far:
-easier to install
-no SOOT!
-still pulls hard. Maybe because it sits higher in sheave with out making adjustments.

If i can get decent top end with 8DN, i will stick to it.
I want consistent temps & rpm's. And CONFIDENCE! I am an aggressive big mile trail rider.
So i will take confidence in my belt from the beating i give it over a few mph on top.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Steveo Aka the MILLINOCKET ROCKET!
Nice data very thorough!
Thanks for posting!

 

[snowbeast]

Started in Millinocket. I'm in Rangeley now. Will be up in Millinocket tomorrow then maybe the County next.
With this set up, i didn't lose much with 8DN, but will line up against 850 if possible with each belt.
The 8DN so far:
-easier to install
-no SOOT!
-still pulls hard. Maybe because it sits higher in sheave with out making adjustments.

If i can get decent top end with 8DN, i will stick to it.
I want consistent temps & rpm's. And CONFIDENCE! I am an aggressive big mile trail rider.
So i will take confidence in my belt from the beating i give it over a few mph on top.

OK once I get the proper set up,i will give the 8dn another try,again thanks for the info,safe riding steve.

 

[stevewithOCD]

CLUTCHMASTER, any data from AC Yellow spring?

 

[ClutchMaster]

CLUTCHMASTER, any data from AC Yellow spring?

None yet but as soon as I know anything I’ll let you know!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Im surprised the Gates did not rev lower then others....On all the DOOS the gates revs 200 less then all doo belts, so I thought it was alot softer/grippier. This makes me think the YAM belts are quite grippy too.

I would love to get some real hard MID/TOP END DATA on the 8DN vs 8JP. ALSO would love to get that same comparison in shorter distances, as Im not convinced it will be slower for most riding speeds(IE: when racing buds down the lake ect) but would like to see that proved. I have 2 8DN belts I want to run and have no problem losing a few MPH on radar days since I can just slap an 8JP on for those days, but would love to know if 8DN can be comparable in speeds other then radar running for daily driver type use at around 52$, Ill take that all day long.

Another great test Steve would be this same test but with STOCK clutching, or some variations on clutching as Im sure temps will change alot with diff setups.

NOTE: I found my 8JP alot less dusty now then it was with stock clutching.(likely due to more backpressure with B/O spring)

Nice work brother
Dan

 

[XP123]

Im surprised the Gates did not rev lower then others....On all the DOOS the gates revs 200 less then all doo belts, so I thought it was alot softer/grippier. This makes me think the YAM belts are quite grippy too.

I would love to get some real hard MID/TOP END DATA on the 8DN vs 8JP. ALSO would love to get that same comparison in shorter distances, as Im not convinced it will be slower for most riding speeds(IE: when racing buds down the lake ect) but would like to see that proved. I have 2 8DN belts I want to run and have no problem losing a few MPH on radar days since I can just slap an 8JP on for those days, but would love to know if 8DN can be comparable in speeds other then radar running for daily driver type use at around 52$, Ill take that all day long.

Another great test Steve would be this same test but with STOCK clutching, or some variations on clutching as Im sure temps will change alot with diff setups.

NOTE: I found my 8JP alot less dusty now then it was with stock clutching.(likely due to more backpressure with B/O spring)

Nice work brother
Dan

From what I have read here Dan is with proper clutching guys are reporting very little belt dust with the 8jp and great performance. Just going with the 8dn is only putting a band aid on a poorly calibrated clutch set up.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Im surprised the Gates did not rev lower then others....On all the DOOS the gates revs 200 less then all doo belts, so I thought it was alot softer/grippier. This makes me think the YAM belts are quite grippy too.

I would love to get some real hard MID/TOP END DATA on the 8DN vs 8JP. ALSO would love to get that same comparison in shorter distances, as Im not convinced it will be slower for most riding speeds(IE: when racing buds down the lake ect) but would like to see that proved. I have 2 8DN belts I want to run and have no problem losing a few MPH on radar days since I can just slap an 8JP on for those days, but would love to know if 8DN can be comparable in speeds other then radar running for daily driver type use at around 52$, Ill take that all day long.

Another great test Steve would be this same test but with STOCK clutching, or some variations on clutching as Im sure temps will change alot with diff setups.

NOTE: I found my 8JP alot less dusty now then it was with stock clutching.(likely due to more backpressure with B/O spring)

Nice work brother
Dan

RockerD,
I agree that the Gates should drop rpm all things equal. The reason behind why the 8dn drops rpm is it’s longer and narrower than the Gates belt. This has the same effect as running a closer Center to Center distance. With both belts at the same position in the secondary, the primary is actually closed more with the 8dn. The secondary senses how hard the belt is pulling through the helix(back shift). Since the 8dn is actually further up on the primary sheave it acts like a larger pulley on the motor translating into less actual belt pulling torque on the secondary.

Looks like Steve’s OCD is paying big dividends in the clutching department! Thanks again for actually data Steveo!

 

[ClutchMaster]

From what I have read here Dan is with proper clutching guys are reporting very little belt dust with the 8jp and great performance. Just going with the 8dn is only putting a band aid on a poorly calibrated clutch set up.

If it works well it’s not a bandaid. It just works. 8dn belts have been working on +300hp Apex’s for years.
What are your recommendations for improving Steve’s clutch setup so it’s more suited to run the 8jp belt?

 

[**sj**]

Ive been playing with a ultimax.....would have been good to see the data on that..

I like the 1 year break warranty ....

the only negative is it pulls rpms down quite a bit..

 

[Motorhead]

I'm up in Maine for week trying 3 different belts with my FLUKE temp gun.

SLED:
-stock
-96 studs up middle
-165 pound rider with 30 pounds extra gear

CLUTCH: as of now 1-7-18

PRIMARY:
-Thunder Products Orange spring with Glide washers
-TP rollers
-TP 911 adjustable cover
-TP Heavy Hitter weights. 3/4 in heel, 3/8 steel bolt & steel washer mid, no tip weight

SECONDARY:
-TP Orange spring set at 1&3 or 40 degrees
-TP rollers
-TP 33/35 helix
-OSP adjuster

New 8DN & 8JP belts washed. Gates Carbon washed with 300 miles on it.
Broke in belts easy then beat the hell out of them in trails for 20 miles before long pulls then measured primary, secondary & belt temps with-in minute of stopping. I have not dialed in weights yet since i haven't chosen my belt of preference yet. I will dial in RPM's later.

Gates Carbon (the 850 killer)
-Primary=150
-Secondary=130
-Belt=175
-RPM=9100
8DN (old reliable)
-P=135
-S=125
-B=145
-RPM=8900
8JP (dirty soot belt)
-P=140
-S=130
-B=165
-RPM=9000

OK, these were hard run numbers. I beat the SNOT out of them. Although i don't run belts this hard normally, i am trying to get best/worst case scenarios.
Please don't tell me how my belt life will increase if i drive slower & easier. I bought a 200 HP sled to use ALL 200 HP! AND I DID!

ANALYSIS:
The Carbon was nasty on the bottom end absolutely destroying buds' 850. The 850 is supposed to be the fastest spooling & quickest stock sled ever built & I KILLED it. My sled is a corner to corner beast with this belt. I can jettison by him after every corner BEFORE the next corner came up.
I really started to TRUST this belt until..........it BLEW!
Yep at 200 miles it shredded. Looked like my dog ate a bag of Black Licorice then puked it up. Just not as slimy. Obviously at 175 degrees it was the hottest belt of the 3. For MY sled & application, this belt is not a good choice. I'm sure with a box of parts it can be made to work, but i don't have a box of parts. It's soft & is probably great for drag racing, but not for aggressive trail riders. Saw 105 MPH with more to go, but ran out of real estate. It was running about 9100 rpm's on top.
The 8DN seemed to have all 3 temps running near 140. That shows me equal tension on sheaves. I couldn't get a top end number, but it felt surprisingly good bottom to top. I will run it another full day, but very little loss of performance & it looks FREAKIN' NEW! And it INSTALLS easy!
The 8JP has been in for 2 days. I now have a black belly pan. Yesterday it pulled almost as hard as Carbon, but today it already feels slower. Different snow also so tomorrow i should know more. Also i let bud ride my 'Winder as i'm on the Apex so a day of testing is lost.

I will run 8DN for a whole day. Then i hope to put in stock clutching & run these 2 belts. Don't have a Carbon belt, but i do have 20,000,000 pieces of one.

NOTE: With this helix at 40 degrees it definitely runs better then at 60. Temps way down & rpm's more consistent. I think going below 40 will gain some, but lose to much back shifting so i won't even try it.

That's it for now. I'll report more Sunday

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the trails in Maine Steve. Hope the county did not get too much snow. New snow ruins the speeds for a couple of days huh?
Nothing like freshly groomed hard trails and thanks for the belt tests.

Hope that is the last blown belt of the season though. SUCKS!!! But hopefully no damage to sled.

 

[Motorhead]

I'm up in Maine for week trying 3 different belts with my FLUKE temp gun.

SLED:
-stock
-96 studs up middle
-165 pound rider with 30 pounds extra gear

CLUTCH: as of now 1-7-18

PRIMARY:
-Thunder Products Orange spring with Glide washers
-TP rollers
-TP 911 adjustable cover
-TP Heavy Hitter weights. 3/4 in heel, 3/8 steel bolt & steel washer mid, no tip weight

SECONDARY:
-TP Orange spring set at 1&3 or 40 degrees
-TP rollers
-TP 33/35 helix
-OSP adjuster

New 8DN & 8JP belts washed. Gates Carbon washed with 300 miles on it.
Broke in belts easy then beat the hell out of them in trails for 20 miles before long pulls then measured primary, secondary & belt temps with-in minute of stopping. I have not dialed in weights yet since i haven't chosen my belt of preference yet. I will dial in RPM's later.

Gates Carbon (the 850 killer)
-Primary=150
-Secondary=130
-Belt=175
-RPM=9100
8DN (old reliable)
-P=135
-S=125
-B=145
-RPM=8900
8JP (dirty soot belt)
-P=140
-S=130
-B=165
-RPM=9000

OK, these were hard run numbers. I beat the SNOT out of them. Although i don't run belts this hard normally, i am trying to get best/worst case scenarios.
Please don't tell me how my belt life will increase if i drive slower & easier. I bought a 200 HP sled to use ALL 200 HP! AND I DID!

ANALYSIS:
The Carbon was nasty on the bottom end absolutely destroying buds' 850. The 850 is supposed to be the fastest spooling & quickest stock sled ever built & I KILLED it. My sled is a corner to corner beast with this belt. I can jettison by him after every corner BEFORE the next corner came up.
I really started to TRUST this belt until..........it BLEW!
Yep at 200 miles it shredded. Looked like my dog ate a bag of Black Licorice then puked it up. Just not as slimy. Obviously at 175 degrees it was the hottest belt of the 3. For MY sled & application, this belt is not a good choice. I'm sure with a box of parts it can be made to work, but i don't have a box of parts. It's soft & is probably great for drag racing, but not for aggressive trail riders. Saw 105 MPH with more to go, but ran out of real estate. It was running about 9100 rpm's on top.
The 8DN seemed to have all 3 temps running near 140. That shows me equal tension on sheaves. I couldn't get a top end number, but it felt surprisingly good bottom to top. I will run it another full day, but very little loss of performance & it looks FREAKIN' NEW! And it INSTALLS easy!
The 8JP has been in for 2 days. I now have a black belly pan. Yesterday it pulled almost as hard as Carbon, but today it already feels slower. Different snow also so tomorrow i should know more. Also i let bud ride my 'Winder as i'm on the Apex so a day of testing is lost.

I will run 8DN for a whole day. Then i hope to put in stock clutching & run these 2 belts. Don't have a Carbon belt, but i do have 20,000,000 pieces of one.

NOTE: With this helix at 40 degrees it definitely runs better then at 60. Temps way down & rpm's more consistent. I think going below 40 will gain some, but lose to much back shifting so i won't even try it.

That's it for now. I'll report more Sunday

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the trails in Maine Steve. Hope your riding area did not get too much snow. New snow ruins the speeds for a couple of days huh?
Nothing like freshly groomed hard trails and thanks for the belt tests.

Hope that is the last blown belt of the season though. SUCKS!!! But hopefully no damage to sled.

 

[fatchance]

I tried shooting belt temps with an infrared temp gun, but the temps were all over the place due to the cold. It was sub zero and i couldn't get the gun warm enough to work properly so anybody that's planning on doing this keep that in mind.
The very first time out of my pocket was the only temp i would trust after a half mile to the pond and a couple rips down it with the 8JP I saw Temps at:
inside primary sheave 161*,
primary outside sheave 145*
secondary was 131*.
Belt at 158*
After that the brand new batteries got cold and even after leaving the gun resting on the primary it was useless