Real Clutch Temps Data

[jonlafon1]

Gates is fast but not durable IMO. I blew 2 of these until I gave up on them. Give me " old reliable". Great data in this post.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Geezze I can’t wait for today’s testing update!

 

[Beerman]

Awesome testing!

 

[stevewithOCD]

OK boys got some good stuff today.
I even got some clutch temps from my Apex, the benchmark for belt performance & longevity.
I wish i had a Carlisle belt. Heck i wish i had a lake & a box 'o parts to play with, but i don't. I have my temp gun & my Grundle. That's the patch of real estate under my balls that tells me if life is good or not. Some call this "seat of the pants" feel.

My personal clutch physician aka:CLUTCHMASTER convinced me to try 30 degrees. The crazy bastard shoots me texts at 2 in the morning with ideas.

Again, i ran these things HARD! Tomorrow i will try regular trail riding temps to please the masses.
I knew going to 30 degrees would decrease my rpm's & probably make it sluggy on the bottom, but this is about belt temps & back shifting. I will adjust weights tomorrow.
Changing the helix angle was all i could do on the road. Everything else left the same.

APEX: This was an hour pull in fresh powder all over 9000 rpm's. 10,600 before belt check
Primary=140
Secondary=140
Belt=155
RPM=9000 to 10,600

8JP: This was an insane pull at 2 hours in same powder
P=155
S=155
B=170
RPM=8950

8DN: This was a 4 mile pull at 3/4 to 7/8 throttle
P=135
S=125
B=145
RPM=8900

ANALYSIS:
The conditions made it hard for top speed checks, plus it's all trails. I ride on the Right ALL the time!

The Apex has very equal Primary & Secondary clutch temps. NOT absolutely necessary, but i believe if there is a HUGE difference between the two, it could show where the problem is.

The 8JP faired better than this recording. I went APECRAZY trying to destroy this belt. Still had decent back shifting, but at about the minimum for aggressive trail riding. The temps are closer together though.


The 8DN has my complete confidence. I held it open as much as i could without even thinking of having a problem. This trip was where i blew the Carbon belt.

I pulled all the heel weight out & 1 mid washer. I have ONLY an Aluminum 3/8ths bolt in mid at this time for tomorrow's ride.
I will test both belts this time at trail riding conditions, ALL out again & more accurate RPM's & top speeds.
The 8JP has over 600 miles on it at this time. I want 1000 miles on this belt before i go home so i can measure it & assess it.

BTW: I'm up against the 850 tomorrow all alone. I think i will be over-revving, but i just love when he punches it & i pull up next to him like the little Nash Rambler in the 50's song "beep beep".......until tomorrow kids.........

 

[jaydaniels]

I have a 8DN as a spare but this has me convinced to try it out. Are you making and adjustments before putting the 8DN on? I heard people were adjusting deflection. Necessary?

 

[jonlafon1]

It's a slightly longer belt. SO if you have a secondary adjuster you will run it on stand and get the 8dn to run over top of secondary sheaves. If not I believe 2 washers on stock set up will be the ticket. The 8dn needs to ride a lot higher then stock 8jp. The top cogs or grooves in belt will be over sheaves.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Nice I’m really glad your OCD! Very thorough me likes all the feed back!
Yes your rpm might be to high now with less weight but now you know where you stand.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ran the 8DN and 8JP back to back yesterday on the 270r map.....The stock 8JP just seems to pull harder IMO....This was all trail riding same trail within an hour of eachother.

I did not do much speed testing as we now have a pile of deep snow on lakes, but I can tell the 8DN just feels slower on top by GPS speeds...

Im going to stick to stock 8JP now that I have my evidence of how mine runs with both belts...The belt dust has been reduced a ton from when i ran the stock secondary clutching. So the dust is really a non issue for me now.

My ultimax blew in short period of time, so I wont bother with those anymore.(I guess I can get another under warranty tho)

Dan

 

[krm]

Ran the 8DN and 8JP back to back yesterday on the 270r map.....The stock 8JP just seems to pull harder IMO....This was all trail riding same trail within an hour of eachother.

I did not do much speed testing as we now have a pile of deep snow on lakes, but I can tell the 8DN just feels slower on top by GPS speeds...

Im going to stick to stock 8JP now that I have my evidence of how mine runs with both belts...The belt dust has been reduced a ton from when i ran the stock secondary clutching. So the dust is really a non issue for me now.

My ultimax blew in short period of time, so I wont bother with those anymore.(I guess I can get another under warranty tho)

Dan

Dan,I had the same problem with the ultimax .The gates is working good for me as is the 8jp .

 

[SUC_doo]

I'm up in Maine for week trying 3 different belts with my FLUKE temp gun.

SLED:
-stock
-96 studs up middle
-165 pound rider with 30 pounds extra gear

CLUTCH: as of now 1-7-18

PRIMARY:
-Thunder Products Orange spring with Glide washers
-TP rollers
-TP 911 adjustable cover
-TP Heavy Hitter weights. 3/4 in heel, 3/8 steel bolt & steel washer mid, no tip weight

SECONDARY:
-TP Orange spring set at 1&3 or 40 degrees
-TP rollers
-TP 33/35 helix
-OSP adjuster

New 8DN & 8JP belts washed. Gates Carbon washed with 300 miles on it.
Broke in belts easy then beat the hell out of them in trails for 20 miles before long pulls then measured primary, secondary & belt temps with-in minute of stopping. I have not dialed in weights yet since i haven't chosen my belt of preference yet. I will dial in RPM's later.

Gates Carbon (the 850 killer)
-Primary=150
-Secondary=130
-Belt=175
-RPM=9100
8DN (old reliable)
-P=135
-S=125
-B=145
-RPM=8900
8JP (dirty soot belt)
-P=140
-S=130
-B=165
-RPM=9000

OK, these were hard run numbers. I beat the SNOT out of them. Although i don't run belts this hard normally, i am trying to get best/worst case scenarios.
Please don't tell me how my belt life will increase if i drive slower & easier. I bought a 200 HP sled to use ALL 200 HP! AND I DID!

ANALYSIS:
The Carbon was nasty on the bottom end absolutely destroying buds' 850. The 850 is supposed to be the fastest spooling & quickest stock sled ever built & I KILLED it. My sled is a corner to corner beast with this belt. I can jettison by him after every corner BEFORE the next corner came up.
I really started to TRUST this belt until..........it BLEW!
Yep at 200 miles it shredded. Looked like my dog ate a bag of Black Licorice then puked it up. Just not as slimy. Obviously at 175 degrees it was the hottest belt of the 3. For MY sled & application, this belt is not a good choice. I'm sure with a box of parts it can be made to work, but i don't have a box of parts. It's soft & is probably great for drag racing, but not for aggressive trail riders. Saw 105 MPH with more to go, but ran out of real estate. It was running about 9100 rpm's on top.
The 8DN seemed to have all 3 temps running near 140. That shows me equal tension on sheaves. I couldn't get a top end number, but it felt surprisingly good bottom to top. I will run it another full day, but very little loss of performance & it looks FREAKIN' NEW! And it INSTALLS easy!
The 8JP has been in for 2 days. I now have a black belly pan. Yesterday it pulled almost as hard as Carbon, but today it already feels slower. Different snow also so tomorrow i should know more. Also i let bud ride my 'Winder as i'm on the Apex so a day of testing is lost.

I will run 8DN for a whole day. Then i hope to put in stock clutching & run these 2 belts. Don't have a Carbon belt, but i do have 20,000,000 pieces of one.

NOTE: With this helix at 40 degrees it definitely runs better then at 60. Temps way down & rpm's more consistent. I think going below 40 will gain some, but lose to much back shifting so i won't even try it.

That's it for now. I'll report more Sunday

I got 1800 miles of hard trail driving and some lake racing on a stock 8jp belt. Pulls hard 850 wont touch it if i hook up. First 500 miles clutch was stock, since i installed a dalton b/o secondary spring and a 33/35 helix

 

[stevewithOCD]

More stuff today boys. I have "regular" trail riding temps.
I will use stock set up tomorrow for final analysis.
I have come to some conclusions also. Yes the 8JP outperforms the 8DN, but i will have an 8DN as a third belt on me at all times. The 8DN with this last set up was soft on bottom, took a half second more to get up to 9000 rpm's & was 4 mph slower on top. It actually runs good & is hard to tell, but i had the 850 pull up to me & then i cut him loose. I would then chase him down judging gain rate & how long it took to over take him. I did this throughout the day. With 8JP it was instant. With 8DN it was not. BUT this belt ran cool at EXTREME riding & for most riding is very good. I'm assuming this belt will last a lot of miles.
Here are some numbers & will explain later.

My set up for today:
-stock with stock track & 96 studs
-165 pound rider with 30 pounds extra
-clutch center to center =262mm
-offset=60.5mm
PRIMARY:
-TP Orange spring
-HH weights with just aluminum mid 3/8ths bolt
-TP rollers & 911 adjustable cover
SECONDARY:
-TP Orange spring
-33/35 helix wrapped at 30
-TP rollers
-OSP adjuster

8JP with 650 miles on it this morning: "regular" riding freshly groomed & loose
Primary =105/ 95/ 99
Secondary=100/ 110/ 110
Belt =170/ 165 /170
RPM's =9200 then down to 9100. rode at 6000 to 7000 for most of these runs

8JP after 750 miles i went postal on this belt for 50 miles over 8000 rpm's
P=115
S=120
B=180
RPM's=9100 then down to 9000
Top Speed seen on speedo=99 mph

8DN "regular " riding
P=105
S=115
B=160
RPM=6000 to 7000

8DN going postal. This run was absurd.
P=125
S=150
B=160
RPM's=9000 down to 8900
Top Speed seen=94 mph

A couple of notes here. I knew i'd be over-revving & saw 9400 rpm's a few times, but i wanted to over achieve today & bring rpm's down later.
I tried some "regular" trail riding temps. I've been called a Hummingbird on Crack before so i don't do anything "slow"!
The 8JP pulls were hard pulls then i settled at 6000 to 6500 rpm's for 15 minutes thinking the belt would cool, but it didn't. The clutches cooled, but not the belt telling me maybe some vents are in order here.
The 8JP clutches were almost cold. 99 degrees? SERIOUS? If my mom used a Rectal Thermometer on me; i'd be going to school that day!
She still has that Thermometer by the way.
The 8JP was pulling hard. I mean scary.
At 750 miles & a BIG 50 mile run from Kakadjo to Pittson Farms up next, i tried to blow the belt. I beat it like a Red Headed Step Child! I ran five 4 mile pulls over 8000 rpm's. I locked up the brakes getting sideways then nailed it 3 times. I ran it off trail in deep snow for a minute pulling 9400 rpm's. I ran it full WOT for as long as i could safely. 2 moose & a gaggle of deer slowed this run twice, but i COULD NOT BLOW THIS BELT!
The last time here i GRENADED my first belt last year going half the speed. I gapped my friend so bad, after a Reeses, water, jerky & drained the vain he pulled up.
On the way home i abused the 8DN maybe even worse. I'm not proud of it...............well......actually i am.

ANALYSIS:
-i think some venting may help
-8DN still looks good & most will not notice the performance drop
- i can put on 8DN without the clutch tools
- i run 8JP even with top of sheave & 8DN just above sheave. This made both belts even on bottom end, but not today
-top speed still has me concerned although i don't think i could run any faster even if i could. 40 to 90 is absolutely VISCIOUS for a stocker!

TOMORROW:
Primary:
-stock weights
-stock spring with TP glide washers
-TP 911 cover & rollers
Secondary:
-stock spring
-TP rollers
-33/35 helix wrapped at 60

I will try both belts again, but this time i will try NOT to go Apeshit first.
I have a new 8JP for fair testing.

BTW: my Doo buddy's Etec has been broken so he rode my 'Winder for the day & the 850 for the day.........he just bought a Sidewinder!

Tomorrow i will post STOCK results.

 

[snowbeast]

That is the #*$&@ right there,thanks Steve. Awsome results man,keep them coming,i knew my 8jp belts were very good considering the power this tune has,and the abuse I have instilled apone them as well..

 

[ClutchMaster]

Nice work Steveo! Makes me proud to have the same name! You’ll have that fu(€£r under 100 degrees yet!

 

[Snowaddict]

Awesome stuff Steve. What were the conditions? Especially curious because your RPMs say you're in the power band, but the top speed doesn't seem to match. Your not a heavy guy either. So, makes me wonder. I am a pretty big guy and saw 108 last year. My RPMs were lower in the 8500 range also. This was TP clutch kit in primary and stock secondary at 6-1 with 35/39 Helix and 8JP.

 

[fatchance]

^^^^^^I was wondering the same thing on the low top speed? I know we just picked up about a foot of snow in Maine so maybe it was loose on top and not hard pack?