sled weights

[Metallicat]

Maybe you can't, but I surly can feel the difference. I can also feel the difference between a std heavy battery and a lightweight battery which is only 11 lbs. Some people have the feel for it and some don't. I prefer to make the Winder as light as reasonably possible....

I may have met you at one point in time, Mr Knapp. There was some turbo Nytro with a conical air filter at the Novi show years ago that held an asphalt record. May have been yours. I also met Tim Bender and Olav Aaen back in the day. All very nice people. Have much respect for your contributions.

 

[sideshowBob]

I always try to lighten up my sleds as much as possible. It is almost impossible to notice a couple of pounds but when you add up all the little savings and get a reduction of 15 to 20 lbs [and hopefully more] I definitely can notice the difference on rough trails, aggressive riding, and when participating in snow drags.
I am so concerned about weight reduction that I hesitated installing the BOP auxiliary rad kit on my SW that I purchased 3 years ago as I was having trouble adding its additional few pounds to the sled....but there is good weight and there is bad weight so I finally installed it this spring.

 

[Fast Lane]

Weight is everything in sleds. My dry weight is supposed to be 540 pounds. My friends made fun of my sled for the longest time that it was so heavy. More so when it was stuck.

I never believed in the argument weight means nothing in trail sleds. I guess it all depends on where you ride, for your point of view.

I was debating of ordering a new Skidoo Tundra/Scandic. A modern day utility sleds advertised dry weights are pretty scary.

 

[kinger]

I always try to lighten up my sleds as much as possible. It is almost impossible to notice a couple of pounds but when you add up all the little savings and get a reduction of 15 to 20 lbs [and hopefully more] I definitely can notice the difference on rough trails, aggressive riding, and when participating in snow drags.
I am so concerned about weight reduction that I hesitated installing the BOP auxiliary rad kit on my SW that I purchased 3 years ago as I was having trouble adding its additional few pounds to the sled....but there is good weight and there is bad weight so I finally installed it this spring.

I felt the same way. However I find the suspension set up handles it better then removing weight. I can hardly tell a difference between a empty tank of gas or a full tank and that is a substantial amount of weight. My mid mount turbo apex "felt" lighter than any other sled (gas tank is reason) except for my rev 600 which is saying something. It was playful and a pure riot but I had the suspension dialed, jumping trail knolls and airing it out like a dang procross sled! I haven't got there yet with my BOB build. Still working on getting the full 600hp working then dial in the suspension.

On my btx it feels like a tank even though its lighter then BOB, but I also have never even adjusted it (because it was broke until this last year) so I need to give it some attention and dial it in.

 

[sideshowBob]

One thing for sure....huge amounts of horsepower will make anything feel light!

 

[1nc 2000]

Well, I run a 3 gallon gas tank on my tunnel 137 sled.
With the way I run my suspension setup it handles better with the extra weight added to the rear of sled.

 

[earthling]

Lots of weight means lots of preload in the springs, that means lots of damping in the shocks to keep springs operating well within the target frequency range. Lots of damping limits the window of operation for the skis and track. Less weight means less preload and less damping, shocks react faster/better in more situations and will simply be better at handling a range of bump heights/frequency especially when the two are highly variable.
All of this can be mitigated with setup/geometry (e.g. Lynx) but still, the core issue is there and you feel it always whether you realize it or not. A lighter sled will be easier to ride and easier to manage.

 

[number1kyster]

Still waiting for someone to weigh a 900R....I think doo people are afraid to knowing the outcome is probably not what they want. I'd say the lightest sidewinders would be the XTX SE 141 with uncoupled ski. I bet those are below 650lbs full of fluids.

Stevewith OCD did.

900R weight comparo

OK My OCD came out this weekend I had to compare REAL weights to my old Sidewinder "I just GOTSA know" (movie quote) I also removed the gas, 2 then 1 gallon at a time to see where the bars are & when the light comes on. You fellas have NO idea what goes on in this head! I think this is the...

www.dootalk.com

 

[earthling]

His 900r at 622 is less weight than the ST weight for both the blizzard and X-RS sooo... I dunno..

Both sled weights he recorded are heavier in the rear than the front which is a bit unexpected. I am not saying that he didn't read those weights but it doesn't make sense unless something about the setup is off for both. The setup video I posted earlier in the thread showed a static winder on a proper 4 corner setup and its definitely nose heavy as one would expect. Since ST was hanging the sleds using a repeatable process I would think that their weights are probably accurate from one sled to another (it would be hard to be off doing it that way), maybe the whole setup weighs heavy or light but it should be consistently off from sled to sled. The only thing we don't know from the outside is whether or not the tanks were full but the winder is right in the ballpark from everything I have seen and unless they have some serious axe to grind with doo I suspect those weights are accurate as well as it would be too easy for someone else to repeat the experiment themselves and prove ST wrong and why would ST as a content producer take that risk.

 

[1nc 2000]

L

Lots of weight means lots of preload in the springs, that means lots of damping in the shocks to keep springs operating well within the target frequency range. Lots of damping limits the window of operation for the skis and track. Less weight means less preload and less damping, shocks react faster/better in more situations and will simply be better at handling a range of bump heights/frequency especially when the two are highly variable.
All of this can be mitigated with setup/geometry (e.g. Lynx) but still, the core issue is there and you feel it always whether you realize it or not. A lighter sled will be easier to ride and easier to

So your target frequency is at what speed? 35-40 mph?
I like to run at much greater speeds therfore I am set up to not bottom out when the big hits arise.
When the trails are smoother I will back down my compression settings.
220 lbs wet weight driver compaired to a 165lb jockey can throw around the heavier sleds.
Some people just aren't able to handle the heavier sleds and the big Horsepower!
Ride what suits your style.

 

[STAIN]

I guess it all depends where and how you ride.
I don't ride the tight and twisty stuff as much as I used to.
I find at higher riding speeds the lighter sleds become nervous; you can feel every trail irregularity. The sled that is slightly heavier seems to ride smoother.
In the tight stuff the light sled is better for sure but the tradeoff for me, where I ride, is not worth it. With the EPS on the Sidewinder, the gap is even smaller.
I compare it to a car on the highway. What would rather ride in, a Honda Civic or a Lexus?
I find this to be true with motorcycles also. While out riding our dual sports I was surprised at how much more road irregularity's you feel on a KLX/CRF 250/300 than on a DRZ 400 or DR 650.
It also seems to me that while test driving new and used cars, the slightly heavier hybrid versions of the same models ride a bit better also.
I am sure there is a sweet spot for everyone's style of riding. I think I have found mine.

 

[earthling]

You are right, when the trails are smooth, weight actually helps up to a point and that point is at the crossroads of grip and high lateral forces. Weight is not your friend in a high speed corner. Cruising.. absolutely, less weight will feel better. All of this discussion is revolving around riding style and where you ride. If you are a cochrane or quebec groomed trail guy it really doesn't matter how much the sled weighs and moderate speed cruising comfort is key. At the other end of the spectrum is mountain riding. I think that the bottom line for what I got out of the ST results is that at least for the 4s segment the winder isn't at any serious disadvantage when it comes to weight and I have no complaints about the sled as it sits, it works for me. Do I wish it was a tad lighter for the single track trails.. yes but then I don't have EPS either which might erase that concern altogether.

 

[Fast]

Well, I run a 3 gallon gas tank on my tunnel 137 sled.
With the way I run my suspension setup it handles better with the extra weight added to the rear of sled.

With all due respect i can't see that possible unless your driving miss daisy

 

[kinger]

With all due respect i can't see that possible unless your driving miss daisy

It has nothing to do with driving miss daisy, weight distribution is huge on sleds and I have seen this same thing where the sled feels more playful with weight on the back acting like a fulcrum pivot and helping to lift the front end. Too much it will understeer but a little more and it gets fun with light steering. After playing with my 4 scales, moving weight all around on my Apex I am starting to get close to saying the distribution is more important than weight with the caveat that the sleds don't get heavier but up to 1000lbs total weight I think if you have it in the right spot you can get the sled to handle. Purists will still argue less is more but reality may be more tolerant. Going to a gas tank under my butt vs in front of it on my apex made it feel completely different sled all for the better. Worth playing with the idea yourself vs arguing about it on the net..

 

[1nc 2000]

With all due respect i can't see that possible unless your driving miss daisy

Balance.
I haven't seen Miss Daisy's in years, how is she?