Starter issues on vipers

[viperking]

I ended up buying a 2014 viper xtx. The Sled was out of warranty when I bought it so I could not get an extended warranty plan. With all the stuff I'm reading about starter issues, am I better off just selling this sled and buying a newer one that I can get warranty on? Or is it true that yamaha will cover starter issues whether or not the sled is under warranty?

Also, what type of starter failure is that leads to the metal fragments in the oil pan? I'm not too familiar with the 4 stroke setup. Also is calling a dealer the best way to have the ecu reflash done to help the starter issues and does anyone know what the cost is for that?

Thanks

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[4StrokeAddict]

If you are on a 2014 flash and it is running fine without hot-start issues, I probably wouldn't update to a 2015 flash. Most people experiencing poor start and idle issues are on the 2015 flash, caused by rich condition. Its only a small percentage of people who have had starters go from what I've read. Another option would be the Evo flash which is they way I would go if I wasn't running a Power Commander tuner.

Some other guys on here would be better suited to answer this question. I don't know if Yamaha will warranty the starter outside of the warranty period, but I would find a good dealer willing to fight for you. Would I sell a good sled because you are worried of a possibility of a starter going that has given you no reason to think its about to go, no. I would talk to my favorite dealer and about your concern. They may be able to put your mind at ease.

Do you know if this sled has had stater issues in the past (was it replaced or has it experienced kickback)?

 

[Studroes144]

Best bet there is to go talk to your dealer and have them get a solid answer from Yamaha as to whether or not the starters will be covered even if it's out of warranty. I seen one post here where someone did get there's covered out of warranty, so there's hope for it and that's the way it should be because there's definitely an issue. For safety precautions, make sure your battery stays good and charged, a battery that's low can give more risk to starter failures, the battery isn't the issue, but it's the easiest preventative thing you can do to keep it up on charge.

 

[viperking]

I acquired the sled in april on a trade deal so I have never actually gotten to ride the sled so I'm not sure if it has hot starting issues at all or not or if anything has ever been done with the starter.

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[4StrokeAddict]

There are lots of us with vipers, only a small handful are experiencing starter problems. Kickbacks from the 2015 flash seems more prevalent which has lots of us worried about our starters (Me included). Mostly, it just means our machines start hard and idle like crap. I would suggest you ride it. If it runs well, be happy (you're probably on the 2014 flash). The biggest problem is the rich start and idle condition. If you have crappy idle and start, look into the Evolution flash or get a programmer. If it is turbo-ed, you probably won't experience start or idle problems since a tuner is modifying the fuel map for the turbo. There is a small group making a lot of noise (and they should!) as there are definitely a couple problems out there that are intertwined to make bad things happen; its just not as big as it would appear. This is one of the best selling sleds Yamaha has seen in a long time. There is a reason for that. Ride it before you get worried about it.

I'd be more concerned with the trihub than the starter without having ridden it. The trihub is known to use junk bearings and causes catastrophic damage if it fails. Either check and replace them frequently and religiously or get an aftermarket wheel kit and be happy.

 

[viperking]

So if I'm on the 2014 flash I shouldn't get the evo flash done unless I have issues? I have a buddy that just bought a 2015. He has the extended warranty, but should he look into the re-flash right away? Can most dealers do the evo-flash or do we need to send the ecu's out to somewhere?

 

[Yamadog]

Well the EVO flash is a different animal than the factory flash to fix hot start issues. There is about 10 different levels of that flash and is a performance flash to up rev limiter and gain hp depending on what mods you have.

There are tons of us with 14's that had no starter issues. I would not be afraid of the 14 just for starter worries.

 

[shadow637]

So if I'm on the 2014 flash I shouldn't get the evo flash done unless I have issues? I have a buddy that just bought a 2015. He has the extended warranty, but should he look into the re-flash right away? Can most dealers do the evo-flash or do we need to send the ecu's out to somewhere?

Have your dealer check and see what flash level your sled is at. If it still is on the original 14 flash you are good to go (unless you want to mod it), if it has the 2015 re-flash I would seriously consider the EVO flash to ease your mind about the starter kickbacks. I have two 14's that are both running the 2015 re-flash and hold my breath every time I start either of them because they both randomly kickback, and one of them has needed a starter replacement.

 

[cannondale27]

Just don't forget guys with the 14 original flash have also had starters fail. They also had hot start issues, P codes and unexplained extremely low idle. The 14 flash was also not perfect. My advise is if your sled doesn't have code issue or hot start issue leave original 14 flash in there. If it has the issues the 15 flash addressed them but introduces rough idle and seems more so called kickbacks. Not for everyone though. That's what's so frustrating.

 

[staggs65]

And the Evo flash is unproven as a cure for the starter issues yet....it just came out. Nobody and I mean nobody has any real serious miles on it yet. It very well may be a cure but everyone seems to claim it is without any actual proof of that yet

 

[iola]

How come no one ever says anything about oil leaking by the separter

 

[NOS-PRO]

And the Evo flash is unproven as a cure for the starter issues yet....it just came out. Nobody and I mean nobody has any real serious miles on it yet. It very well may be a cure but everyone seems to claim it is without any actual proof of that yet

Staggs is correct, this was new this past fall and we need snow to really get some good feedack. When myself, Shagman and Dave_RX1 worked with EVO on their performance flashes, all the issues that everybody has had with their sleds, we duplicated right on the dyno. Hot start issues, lean pop, kick-back and poor idle. With all this and the info from the site, working with Jim at EVO, we came up with flashes that should help or even cure the problems everybody was having.

My last 2-3 races on asphalt were probably the best tests before the flashes were available to the public. At the track, the sled gets started about 25-30 times and can honestly say there were 0 issues....even in the warm weather. Dave_RX1 starts his sled up for people and it runs smoother, starts easier and no issues (Dave's sled was the culprit for all the EVO flash testing and was the one on the dyno). No more kick-backs and no hot start issues from either of our sleds. From others that have purchased the EVO flash, nothing but good comments so far.

I have 2 ECU's, the EVO performance flash and an original 2015. When I switch between them (which I tested last month), the 2015 starts harder, cranks longer and runs so different. I am keeping the 2015 ECU so when Yamaha has an update, I can throw that ECU in and do some testing.

This is the only concrete evidence I can give, but I have had the original 2014 Yamaha program, 2015 re-flash from Yamaha with lean-pop, rough idle and kick-back and now the EVO performance flash and still have the original starter and gear. If you counted all the times I have started my sled, I'm shocked it hasn't had an issue.

 

[PAvector]

My 14 had hot starting issues that threw 2 codes a lot. What caused the codes and how did EVO get rid of them on their 14 reflash?

 

[NOS-PRO]

My 14 had hot starting issues that threw 2 codes a lot. What caused the codes and how did EVO get rid of them on their 14 reflash?

Never got any codes PAvector....just the horrible kick-back and lean pop idle with the 2015 ECU flash and the hot start issue with the 2014 ECU. Don't really know what EVO did to correct the problem, all I know is that emails were being sent between Jim and his brother, downloads and program changes were being made. Dave, Shagman and myself, along with Jim from EVO worked straight thru about 12 hours on the dyno....it was a long day, but with great results. Basically the program can be altered to adjust timing, rev limiter, fuel and other things which I know I will never be able to explain of what or how much....I was doing a lot of wrenching while programs were being changed/adjusted, but everytime the ECU was pulled and brought into the office for programming, the sled on the dyno was cooled down with addition of a mod each time. Did some welding also so a bung could be added for watching AFR's to make the flashes safe.

Another thing that I forgot to mention was that EVO even looked at their performance flash for the Nytro which was something that I remember us talking about. I have the Nytro performance flash on my 2008 Nytro and you wouldn't believe what it did to that sled...that is what made me a believer in EVO's flash and how I wanted to work with Jim on the performance flash for the Viper.

 

[staggs65]

Staggs is correct, this was new this past fall and we need snow to really get some good feedack. When myself, Shagman and Dave_RX1 worked with EVO on their performance flashes, all the issues that everybody has had with their sleds, we duplicated right on the dyno. Hot start issues, lean pop, kick-back and poor idle. With all this and the info from the site, working with Jim at EVO, we came up with flashes that should help or even cure the problems everybody was having.

My last 2-3 races on asphalt were probably the best tests before the flashes were available to the public. At the track, the sled gets started about 25-30 times and can honestly say there were 0 issues....even in the warm weather. Dave_RX1 starts his sled up for people and it runs smoother, starts easier and no issues (Dave's sled was the culprit for all the EVO flash testing and was the one on the dyno). No more kick-backs and no hot start issues from either of our sleds. From others that have purchased the EVO flash, nothing but good comments so far.

I have 2 ECU's, the EVO performance flash and an original 2015. When I switch between them (which I tested last month), the 2015 starts harder, cranks longer and runs so different. I am keeping the 2015 ECU so when Yamaha has an update, I can throw that ECU in and do some testing.

This is the only concrete evidence I can give, but I have had the original 2014 Yamaha program, 2015 re-flash from Yamaha with lean-pop, rough idle and kick-back and now the EVO performance flash and still have the original starter and gear. If you counted all the times I have started my sled, I'm shocked it hasn't had an issue.

Thanks for replying NOS. I believe in the testing you guys and EVO have done and the logic behind it makes sense. I just hate that this is thrown out as a cure by everyone now like it's a gospel. I know you get what I'm saying, I appreciate what you've all put into this and I believe it will work but let's get some proof before every swinging d#€K claims it's gospel