Starter issues on vipers

[cannondale27]

It would have been nice if they had a code throwing,bad hot starting sled there to test. Evo has already said changing specific issues such as the oil sensor timing are like finding a needle in a haystack and those are exact words. They were looking for it. Not found. So based on that the solution to the 14 flash P-codes and the out of the blue low idle along with the no fire on hot start along with different reverse motor timing all issues that seem to have gone away with the 15 flash are going to be back with the 14 based Evo flashes. I have not heard it said that the so called kickback has been fixed from Evo with anything other than the 14 based flash. If so maybe I missed it?

 

[Dealerjohn]

Anyone with a evo flash have any video of start up and idle? before flash and after would be even better.. I have kick back issues, and until someone else with kickback issues receives an evo flash and it cures their problems.. I'm still skeptical.

 

[Studroes144]

Thanks for replying NOS. I believe in the testing you guys and EVO have done and the logic behind it makes sense. I just hate that this is thrown out as a cure by everyone now like it's a gospel. I know you get what I'm saying, I appreciate what you've all put into this and I believe it will work but let's get some proof before every swinging d#€K claims it's gospel

I can agree with what you're trying to get across, but one major thing that shouldn't be overlooked by Evo and more importantly, the consumer, if people are getting the flash in hopes that they won't have starter failure, I think they need to do more searching on what's going on. I can vouch for 2 original 2014 sleds with original ecu's, a viper and a 7000, and both have had starter gears break and cause some internal damage because of it, strange part is, neither sled ever had a kick back, mine had the low idle once, the 7000 never missed it beat, it started as nice or nicer than any nytro, rtx-1, apex or Phazer that we ever had, heck it starts as perfect as a brand new vehicle, and the starter still blew out on it. What I'm getting at is I believe even with the Evo flash, those starters were still gonna go, weak parts is what I suspect. Just hoping that if/when somebody has the Evo flash and has a starter go bad that they don't jump all over Evo about it. I think a simple disclaimer stating that the flash is not a cure to any starter issue that is caused by faulty internal engine parts would be a great idea for them, I don't think it's anything they would need to be ashamed about saying, it would be a helpful and informative thing for guys considered the product.

 

[cannondale27]

Anyone with a evo flash have any video of start up and idle? before flash and after would be even better.. I have kick back issues, and until someone else with kickback issues receives an evo flash and it cures their problems.. I'm still skeptical.

I do believe it will fix your so called kickback issues but I also believe its going to bring back the problems the 14's had. Kickback was not one of them.

 

[cannondale27]

I can agree with what you're trying to get across, but one major thing that shouldn't be overlooked by Evo and more importantly, the consumer, if people are getting the flash in hopes that they won't have starter failure, I think they need to do more searching on what's going on. I can vouch for 2 original 2014 sleds with original ecu's, a viper and a 7000, and both have had starter gears break and cause some internal damage because of it, strange part is, neither sled ever had a kick back, mine had the low idle once, the 7000 never missed it beat, it started as nice or nicer than any nytro, rtx-1, apex or Phazer that we ever had, heck it starts as perfect as a brand new vehicle, and the starter still blew out on it. What I'm getting at is I believe even with the Evo flash, those starters were still gonna go, weak parts is what I suspect. Just hoping that if/when somebody has the Evo flash and has a starter go bad that they don't jump all over Evo about it. I think a simple disclaimer stating that the flash is not a cure to any starter issue that is caused by faulty internal engine parts would be a great idea for them, I don't think it's anything they would need to be ashamed about saying, it would be a helpful and informative thing for guys considered the product.

Well said.

 

[Dealerjohn]

I do believe it will fix your so called kickback issues but I also believe its going to bring back the problems the 14's had. Kickback was not one of them.

Well why wouldn't they base their flash on the 15?? That would be the obvious thing to do, wouldn't it?

 

[cannondale27]

Well why wouldn't they base their flash on the 15?? That would be the obvious thing to do, wouldn't it?

Because the 15 flash is known for the Kickbacks. They do give you that option but as far as I see it all of the flashes have issues. But the kicker is all the flashes are not a issue in every sled. Best explanation for that is programming irregularities. I ride with 3 that have 15 flash and never had a kickback including mine. All have a little bit rough idle compared to 14's but not a issue in any of them.

 

[stingray719]

And the Evo flash is unproven as a cure for the starter issues yet....it just came out. Nobody and I mean nobody has any real serious miles on it yet. It very well may be a cure but everyone seems to claim it is without any actual proof of that yet

I think that was aimed my way due to a previous post, but let me clarify I said the EVO flash will cure the failures caused by starter kickback... nothing more. Starters are failing for more than one reason so no one solution will fix them all.

 

[4StrokeAddict]

I think that was aimed my way due to a previous post, but let me clarify I said the EVO flash will cure the failures caused by starter kickback... nothing more. Starters are failing for more than one reason so no one solution will fix them all.

Fixing the kickback may not cure the problem, but it should help. Several of the guys that have had starter failures also had bad kickbacks. I happen to be one that fears for my starter because of 2 bad kickbacks to date. I'm going a different and $$$$$ route to fix it. I went turbo and PCV to clean up the idle. The EVO flash should do the same thing for a much more reasonable price. Starters will likely still fail, but hopefully at a lower rate as one contributing issue goes away.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Thanks for replying NOS. I believe in the testing you guys and EVO have done and the logic behind it makes sense. I just hate that this is thrown out as a cure by everyone now like it's a gospel. I know you get what I'm saying, I appreciate what you've all put into this and I believe it will work but let's get some proof before every swinging d#€K claims it's gospel

Right on Staggs....yup, I do get what your saying

 

[NOS-PRO]

I can agree with what you're trying to get across, but one major thing that shouldn't be overlooked by Evo and more importantly, the consumer, if people are getting the flash in hopes that they won't have starter failure, I think they need to do more searching on what's going on. I can vouch for 2 original 2014 sleds with original ecu's, a viper and a 7000, and both have had starter gears break and cause some internal damage because of it, strange part is, neither sled ever had a kick back, mine had the low idle once, the 7000 never missed it beat, it started as nice or nicer than any nytro, rtx-1, apex or Phazer that we ever had, heck it starts as perfect as a brand new vehicle, and the starter still blew out on it. What I'm getting at is I believe even with the Evo flash, those starters were still gonna go, weak parts is what I suspect. Just hoping that if/when somebody has the Evo flash and has a starter go bad that they don't jump all over Evo about it. I think a simple disclaimer stating that the flash is not a cure to any starter issue that is caused by faulty internal engine parts would be a great idea for them, I don't think it's anything they would need to be ashamed about saying, it would be a helpful and informative thing for guys considered the product.

Agreed

Plus, not everyone is running all stock either. Will the airbox mod cause a worse condition with the 2015 re-flash than someone with a stock airbox? Some run premium while some run regular. Spark plugs? How many switched over to 10EK plugs?

So many factors..... I hate seeing a sled that I love and a company that I have been very loyal to, get the bad rep that it's getting. My New Years resolution was to see this issue go away, get all the Vipers running like they should....but it seems the issue is getting worse.

Cannondale and others, would it be worth starting a poll on who is having starter issues, what mods they have, if the performance flash from EVO fixed their issues or what they did to fix the issue? Maybe even a double poll or triple poll.

Ex.
Have you or are you having starter issues? Yes __ No __ Mods? Airbox__ Exhaust__ EVO Flash__ PCV__
2014, 2014 after re-flash, 2015, 2016? _____
Is your sled or was your sled fixed Yes__ No__ Still Having problems? Yes__ No__

 

[Dealerjohn]

Because the 15 flash is known for the Kickbacks. They do give you that option but as far as I see it all of the flashes have issues. But the kicker is all the flashes are not a issue in every sled. Best explanation for that is programming irregularities. I ride with 3 that have 15 flash and never had a kickback including mine. All have a little bit rough idle compared to 14's but not a issue in any of them.

So what you are saying is, EVO isn't actually fixing the kickback issue.. They are using a 14 flash where the kickback wasn't even present.. In turn they are introducing a whole slew of other problems... potentially. Wow. that don't sound like something anyone should be interested in.

 

[shadow637]

So what you are saying is, EVO isn't actually fixing the kickback issue.. They are using a 14 flash where the kickback wasn't even present.. In turn they are introducing a whole slew of other problems... potentially. Wow. that don't sound like something anyone should be interested in.

With all the tuning knowledge that EVO has I would think that they solved the kickback issue but with few people actually riding their sleds yet this year there is not a lot of real world data to back it up. All the flash versions seem to have some issues (compared to the 08 Nytro) but the kickback is (to me at least) the worst by far of any of them.

I have seen the complete opposite flash reaction as Cannondale- I normally ride with 3 Vipers and a XF7000 all with the 2015 flash and all of them have kickbacks since the re-flash. My two 2014 Vipers were update flashed at the same dealer, the 2014 XF obviously was updated at a Cat dealer and the other Viper is a 2015 sled.

 

[shagman]

Agreed

Plus, not everyone is running all stock either. Will the airbox mod cause a worse condition with the 2015 re-flash than someone with a stock airbox? Some run premium while some run regular. Spark plugs? How many switched over to 10EK plugs?

So many factors..... I hate seeing a sled that I love and a company that I have been very loyal to, get the bad rep that it's getting. My New Years resolution was to see this issue go away, get all the Vipers running like they should....but it seems the issue is getting worse.

Cannondale and others, would it be worth starting a poll on who is having starter issues, what mods they have, if the performance flash from EVO fixed their issues or what they did to fix the issue? Maybe even a double poll or triple poll.

Ex.
Have you or are you having starter issues? Yes __ No __ Mods? Airbox__ Exhaust__ EVO Flash__ PCV__
2014, 2014 after re-flash, 2015, 2016? _____
Is your sled or was your sled fixed Yes__ No__ Still Having problems? Yes__ No__

Info for everyone. This starter problem is on all 1049cc engines. This was a problem before the viper was even built. Dealer here has vectors and ventures that have had as many a 6 of them. Broken gears, magnets and all the same failures as the viper. Only difference is that there aren't as many built so it's not as well known. Just letting everyone know that this goes back a ways.


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[NOS-PRO]

So what you are saying is, EVO isn't actually fixing the kickback issue.. They are using a 14 flash where the kickback wasn't even present.. In turn they are introducing a whole slew of other problems... potentially. Wow. that don't sound like something anyone should be interested in.

Dealerjohn....your thinking the wrong way. The issues were all there before EVO's flash and EVO has done everything to help with these issues, not introducing more issues.

3 sleds with EVO flashes close to me, many that I have been in PM's with..... no issues at all. Working on Buddah's sled right now in my shop, waiting for the ECU to return. Will throw in the 2015 re-flash and the EVO flash to show the difference.