The Arcitc Cat Float suspension thread

Doing more research on the cf skid vs the M skid. The part numbers for the front and rear arms are the same for many sleds. The rear float is 16" and is the same for just about everything. Where things are different are in the front shock. CF have 1704-747 and are 12.51", M's (even the 141 m's) use 1704-351 but size was not given on microfiche site. the hcr does use a different front shock also.

Hmm. Here is some data.

The front arm on skid(1704-720):
2008 M1000 EFI "162" SNO PRO LIMITED EDITION - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY SNO PRO NIGHTFIRE LIMITED EDITION
2008 M8 EFI "153" SNO PRO LIMITED EDITION - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY SNO PRO NIGHTFIRE LIMITED EDITION
2009 CF8 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 153 LE SNOW PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 153 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO LE - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 LE - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF6 EFI - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF8 - REAR SUSPENSION FRONT ARM ASSEMBLY

The rear arm on the skid (1704-722):
2008 M8 EFI "153" SNO PRO LIMITED EDITION - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY SNO PRO NIGHTFIRE LIMITED EDITION
2008 M1000 EFI "162" SNO PRO LIMITED EDITION - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY SNO PRO NIGHTFIRE LIMITED EDITION
2009 M8 153 LE SNOW PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 153 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF8 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF8 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF6 EFI - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY

Rear float shock -16" (1704-813):
2009 M8 153 HCR - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M1000 153 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M8 153 LE SNOW PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 162 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF8 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M6 EFI 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 CF1000 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M1000 162 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M8 153 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 CF1000 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 153 HCR - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M1000 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 M8 153 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M1000 153 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M8 162 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 M6 EFI - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2009 CF1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2009 CF1000 LE SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 162 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 162 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 HCR - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 153 HCR - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 CF8 LE - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 CF8 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2010 M8 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M6 EFI 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2010 M6 EFI 153 - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY
2011 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM SHOCK ABSORBER
2011 M1000 162 SNO PRO - REAR SUSPENSION REAR ARM ASSEMBLY


Ok so lets start with the common item. The rear 1704-813 16" fox float. It is used on everything that I can see except the 2011 sleds--2011 still has a 16" shock. I am going to research some skid options that are black because colors throw off the part numbers.

2010 CF8 SNO PRO
Front Arm 1704-720 ARM,FRONT-W/PIVOT (BLK)-FAB
Front Shock 1704-747 SHOCK, FRT ARM-12.51 (FOX)
Rear Arm 1704-722 ARM,IDLER (BLK)-FAB
Rear Shock 1704-813 SHOCK,FLOAT- 16"- REAR ARM-ASSY
2009 M8 153 SNO PRO
Front Arm 1704-720 ARM,FRONT-W/PIVOT (BLK)-FAB
Front Shock 1704-351 SHOCK,FRT ARM-ZERO PRO (FOX)
Rear Arm 1704-722 ARM,IDLER (BLK)-FAB
Rear Shock 1704-813 SHOCK,FLOAT- 16"- REAR ARM-ASSY
2010 M8 153 SNO PRO LE
Front Arm 1704-720 ARM,FRONT-W/PIVOT (BLK)-FAB
Front Shock 1704-351 SHOCK,FRT ARM-ZERO PRO (FOX)
Rear Arm 1704-722 ARM,IDLER (BLK)-FAB
Rear Shock 1704-813 SHOCK,FLOAT- 16"- REAR ARM-ASSY
2011 - CF8 SNO PRO
Front Arm 1704-720 ARM,FRONT-W/PIVOT (BLK)-FAB
Front Shock 1704-351 SHOCK,FRT ARM-ZERO PRO (FOX)
Rear Arm 1704-722 ARM,IDLER (BLK)-FAB
Rear Shock 2704-022 SHOCK,FLOAT-16"-REAR ARM-ASSY

Ok, so these skids are the same minus the front shock length and something on rear shock in 2011.

Now lets start cross referencing colors on the arms.

Black Front Arm 1704-720
Orange Front Arm 1704-598
Green Front Arm 1704-644
Platinum Front Arm 1704-750

Black Rear Arm 1704-722
Orange Rear Arm 1704-603
Green Rear Arm 1704-646
Platinum Rear Arm 1704-752

So the arms are the same. Front shocks are different, but the HCR actually uses the same one from a 2002 ZR. I wonder if the mount points on the rail are the same. I am thinking they are the same from research on the net. Change my tunnel mounts to be the same as OTM or more like an M. Change the shock to a 2002 ZR. Hmmm...
 
Beeze:

Great job on the PN's ....that's a pile of work! BTW, the front shock on the M is 11.25" c to c, and to my knowedge it unchanged 08-12. The approach angle on the M's are lower than the CF. I have both rails, and its maybe 5 degrees. I could measure it if you are interested.

The CF mount their 12.5" front shock further back on the rail. Its easy to tell because on the CF, they can mount their forward idlers inboard, and on the M, they are outboard. I prefer the M setup because the shock is more vertical and thus has a more linear spring rate which is good for the Nytro's heavy front end.

I was also doing some reading on the 2013 M's and apparently AC have moved both their front and rear mounts down approximately 5/8" to 3/4! I am really struggling to understand how they can move them down so much and not dramatically increase the chances of stabbing the track. With the suspension essentially unchanged maybe they'll install antistab's from the factory.

Here's the link over on SW about the 2013 mounts:
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/show ... 9&posted=1

I am going to put this on AutoCAD to see how badly the front of the rails protrude into the track line, but it's got to be pretty big.

Hey Alatalo, looks like huggermax has your solution!...how bad can shipping be to Sweden?

OTM
 
Off Trail Mike said:
Hey Alatalo, looks like huggermax has your solution!...how bad can shipping be to Sweden?
Click to expand...
...bad. Unfortunately, the package dimensions for a complete skid exceeds some kind of maximum measurement for USPS international shipping. Unless I crate it, bring it to the harbour myself and send it on a three month boat trip, this means the only possible options are UPS, DHL or TNT Express at $500 to $1000...and for sure little bit of swedish customs tax on top of that...and the swedes are shafted again.

Still, if I find a brand new take out 162" at the same price as huggermax (that is the price he paid, he is not trying to sell it), then I would buy it immediately and arrange shipping. They are not common around here and the complete skid as spare part from AC in Sweden is close to $4000...

If somebody is interested in selling an AC 162" skid - new or used - just let me know.
 
Off Trail Mike said:
I was also doing some reading on the 2013 M's and apparently AC have moved both their front and rear mounts down approximately 5/8" to 3/4!
Click to expand...
Just speculating, but is this related to the introduction of the Power Claw 2.6"...?
Possible interference if using the old mounting points...?
 
Alatalo said:
Off Trail Mike said:
Hey Alatalo, looks like huggermax has your solution!...how bad can shipping be to Sweden?
Click to expand...
...bad. Unfortunately, the package dimensions for a complete skid exceeds some kind of maximum measurement for USPS international shipping. Unless I crate it, bring it to the harbour myself and send it on a three month boat trip, this means the only possible options are UPS, DHL or TNT Express at $500 to $1000...and for sure little bit of swedish customs tax on top of that...and the swedes are shafted again.
Click to expand...
USPS is 108" total. Measure the length and once around the package, add together. I shipped a motorcycle frame to New Zealand for 240.00. Had to grind the welds and separate it in half. Fed ex was 1000.00 and USP was 750.00.
 
Alatalo:

Sorry man, I knew it would be bad, but had no idea it would be THAT bad.

As usual its the rails that are the majority of the problem. As Beeze pointed out the rest of the components are the same, regardless if its a 141, 153 or 162 CF or M, so you should be able to swing a reasonable shipping deal that works for everything else BUT the rails.

I have a friend of mine that commutes between Canada and Ireland a couple of times a year but not sure if that helps....would be interesting bringing CAT rails with your luggage! I checked at our local Cat dealer, G. Bourque and the 162 rails are CDN$ 271 cdn which ain't cheap as the 153's are $193.

There has to be a way.....just have to figure it out. How expensive are 162 rails in Sweden if you bought from the Cat dealer?

OTM
 
Alatalo said:
Off Trail Mike said:
I was also doing some reading on the 2013 M's and apparently AC have moved both their front and rear mounts down approximately 5/8" to 3/4!
Click to expand...
Just speculating, but is this related to the introduction of the Power Claw 2.6"...?
Possible interference if using the old mounting points...?
Click to expand...

Alatalo:
Bang on. This is all about the new 2.6" PC. It sounds to me like they are NOT going to change to a smaller driver, keeping the 8 tooth, so to fit, they have to raise the tunnel relative to the track on the ground.

For this new track to fit they really only have two options:
1. Increase the radius on the front of the rails (translation: new rail design with more curve) or
2. Shorten the rails a bit.

If the rails remain unchanged, then the tips of the rails are going to be into the trackline, meaning you need very strong anitstab wheels to keep the track from stabbing thru.

Maybe I'm missing something. Hopefully if Beeze gets that M tunnel, we can finally confirm some of the cat's original dimensions and figure in the new track too!

OTM
 
The front mount hole is 9.5" center to center from the cogs. The rear mount hole is 31 1/4" from the front hole center to center. The rear mount hole to the cogs center to center is 40 1/4".

My current ratcheting setup is 9" 31" 40". My front mount is clearly lower then the cogs while the M's is clearly higher.
 
Two months ago Off Trail Mike was kind enough to send me a used CF zero pro front shock to try out. I got back from work on April 6th and installed it a few hours before I left for Arctic Man. I only got a couple shorter rides on it but needless to say it solved every problem I've had with this skid since the beginning. I'm going to try and get at least one good ride in before I leave again on the 20th.

Suspension performance was much improved. With the skid sitting on the garage floor, it raised the front arm mounting hole from about 10.5" to 13.5" off the ground which ironically put it in one of the original holes I had drilled. I gained a decent amount of front suspension travel and it also improved the performance of the entire skid. I'm not sure what the spring rate of the CF spring is but I swapped my Z-broz spring(160 lb) on before installing the shock.

And now for the BEST part. ZERO, I repeat ZERO track tension problems. It now maintains track tension when compressed and I'm running the track looser than before too.

Here are the two different shocks before I swapped springs.
IMG_2818.jpg


Installed the CF shock without the spring and compressed it to make sure it would bottom on the bump stops and not the shock itself.
IMG_2819.jpg


Couldn't get CF limiter straps in time so I cut my M straps to make due.
IMG_2820.jpg


Unfortunately this is the only before picture I have with the M shock. Sorry its not a better profile picture.
IMG_2797.jpg


And here's a pic with the CF shock right before I installed the skid.
IMG_2821.jpg


And a couple completed pictures which were both taken after sitting on the skid.
IMG_2825.jpg

IMG_2826.jpg


Mike originally sent me the shock just to try out and see how I liked it. Needless to say, I will be sending him money to keep it on my sled. Thanks again Mike :rocks:
 
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