The Clutch Rabbit Hole

[Doc Harley]

Hmmmm......lots to digest. Let us know which way you decide to go! No right or wrong answers, just the price of admission.
Then when you decide to turn it up to MS16sm, you should be all ready to go....like a walk in the park.

 

[Derailed]

Yeah it starts with “Hmm why isn’t this roller rolling’”and next thing I know it’s like “hey that anti-lag sounds pretty cool!”

So even with the extreme flat spotted secondary roller my helix doesn’t look that bad but I think I’m going to get the 35deg billet helix as suggested if for no other reason than the bushing in the helix is pretty worn and Yamaha lists them around $50 so at that point I might as well get a helix I figure.

I did pick up an XS-850 belt today ($209 CAD), still debating weights lol but think I had springs and rollers figured out.

If anyone has a set of low mileage stock weights let me know that might be my temporary solution until I get a tune.

Thanks all

 

[KnappAttack]

Put the stock helix back on and send it. No big problem there. For that matter, I don't see the weights wore from the pictures either. You say .005" of wear on one of the weights, how did you drive at that figure? All three look the same to me, but no way to see .005" of wear. Set all there of them side by side and sight down them.

Looks to me like you can just replace the primary and secondary rollers and call it a day.

Just looked at the pictures again, that flat spot on the secondary roller is not even on the updated rollers, that is an original roller, they flat spotted rather quickly, surprised you got any miles out of them myself. I just dont see the need to replace that set of weights at all unless the bushings were worn, same with the helix, no reason to replace it.

 

[Derailed]

Put the stock helix back on and send it. No big problem there. For that matter, I don't see the weights wore from the pictures either. You say .005" of wear on one of the weights, how did you drive at that figure? All three look the same to me, but no way to see .005" of wear. Set all there of them side by side and sight down them.

Looks to me like you can just replace the primary and secondary rollers and call it a day.

Just looked at the pictures again, that flat spot on the secondary roller is not even on the updated rollers, that is an original roller, they flat spotted rather quickly, surprised you got any miles out of them myself. I just dont see the need to replace that set of weights at all unless the bushings were worn, same with the helix, no reason to replace it.

You can kinda see what I did in the pic, I made a measurement between the weight and the edge. It also had a burr..

Can see the other weight behind it. Think that’s why I was blowing belts last season?

 

[74Nitro]

You can kinda see what I did in the pic, I made a measurement between the weight and the edge. It also had a burr..
View attachment 174705
Can see the other weight behind it. Think that’s why I was blowing belts last season?

Looks like there may be more than five thou. That's where they start to go. Hard to tell without having them in front of us in hand.

 

[THEPASMAN]

IMO, those bushings move just due to the harmonics and back and forth forces inherit in these clutches/engines.
Also, even though that roller is more difficult to spin, I think it would still be moving when the machine is operating. There is a great amount of force against that roller from the weight.
Also of note is that you will almost never see all the rollers and weights wear at the same pace. There is always one that fails first, or is more worn than the others. I believe that could be due to where the clutch happened to be located when is was put on the engine, which could be different every time.

You might be onto something. Maybe that why some are louder than others and some are harder on competent that others. Maybe someone could figure out how to index the clutch in reference to top dead centre on one of the cylinder

Just thinking out loud

 

[KnappAttack]

You can kinda see what I did in the pic, I made a measurement between the weight and the edge. It also had a burr..
View attachment 174705
Can see the other weight behind it. Think that’s why I was blowing belts last season?

That pic looks more like the weight is worn, put the third weight beside it, sight down it and you'll know for sure. Seeing this it could possibly be worn. The reason it could have been blowing belts is the clutches were not operating smoothly with the skidding & binding rollers.

 

[Derailed]

You might be onto something. Maybe that why some are louder than others and some are harder on competent that others. Maybe someone could figure out how to index the clutch in reference to top dead centre on one of the cylinder

Just thinking out loud

The reason I let it go so long is that I had an
RX-1 before this and the clutch made all kinds of noises but even at 30’000km it never let me down so I kinda lived by the “Yamaha cluches are noisey” rule. To be fair, this sled has also never let me down. Probably outside of that secondary roller I tend to agree I could just send it.
I did change the drive axle last season cause it suffered for the bearing slippage and also put red loctite on the chain tensioner screws (as per the mantenance schedule). Replaced the top gear bushing too. Otherwise this particular sled has not suffered the other common ailments

 

[74Nitro]

The reason I let it go so long is that I had an
RX-1 before this and the clutch made all kinds of noises but even at 30’000km it never let me down so I kinda lived by the “Yamaha cluches are noisey” rule. To be fair, this sled has also never let me down. Probably outside of that secondary roller I tend to agree I could just send it.
I did change the drive axle last season cause it suffered for the bearing slippage and also put red loctite on the chain tensioner screws (as per the mantenance schedule). Replaced the top gear bushing too. Otherwise this particular sled has not suffered the other common ailments

The Yamaha engines with the clutch mounted on a separate gear-reduced shaft have amazing clutch life.
Vmax4
Rx-1/Apex
Phazer 4 stroke.

 

[Bigblue1]

So in this case what it seems happened with the Yamaha roller is that the bushing worked its way out a little bit as you might be able to see in the pic and that causes it to bind up. I wasn’t able to roll it with my fingers at all. This caused about 0.006” to wear off the weight but I’ve checked the roller with a digital caliper and micrometer several times if it is out of round it isn’t by much more than 0.001”.

OD was 14.44mm btw, at over 5000 miles with zero maintenance. ID 9.22-9.24mm
View attachment 174701

Same thing happened to me.

I’m no expert but here is what worked for me;
Thunder Products Primary and secondary rollers with glide washers
Thunder products Primary and secondary springs
Dalton QUAY 70 at 74grams
Ultimax 825

Could probably use more weight but my rpms are within the range (high side) of where it needs to be according to TD. Running 285 hp with a 2.5 inch Superquiet muffler with all the other necessary items ( BOV, Map Sensor, intake…)

Note: I am a heavy rider all dressed so I am sure that helps load things up a bit also.

 

[jonlafon1]

Thundershift rollers the best Fleecer? Do they use the full width? I haven't put enough miles on the gforce yet for good feedback. The Yamaha rollers are very expensive.

got the Gforce in my 22 since new.. I really like these rollers and have about 2300 miles and very little wear.. I run lighter weights.. HH around 68 grams I believe.. Straight 38 helix.. Measured just like the stocker angles.. 38 is a BDX helix.. The G force have really tight tolerance when new..

 

[Doowithblue]

I second that on the gforce best rollers ive ever used and im running big weight.

 

[jonlafon1]

I second that on the gforce best rollers ive ever used and im running big weight.

Merry Christmas brother!

 

[Doowithblue]

Merry Christmas brother!

You too fella!!

 

[Upstater57]

Have any of you used the new ADAPT clutch? I have found it easy to live with and it seems to use lighter weights than a Yamaha clutch. It also does not rattle. The only downside I have come across is that some of the covers have cracked. I replaced my stock cover with an SSI billet cover as insurance. Cat guys I know, that have switched from the old cat clutch find that it adds MPH (at least on 800's).

Merry Christmas to all !