Warning, -16 late build Viper turbo breakdowns, bad rods.

[stingray719]

Not trying to lose focus on the main topic in this one but wanna go back to the issues Dave posted with an mpi kit, like everyone I too was pretty dumbfounded when the post was made of a trail turbo only making 11 hp over stock, I knew the muffler was restrictive, but that restrictive?!? After being skeptical of that, fast forward to this past week, right before closing time I'm at the dealers (d&d) when a gentleman comes in to get some different weights for his cat 7000, between a few people that were in there there was some small talk that opened up to a very interesting conversation, the gentleman went on to say how he had an mpi turbo on his 7000 that he was not happy with, struggled getting it to run good, and finally ended up taking the sled to Dave where it ended up only making low 150's on their dyno, once he said that I was all ears cuz I had read and reread these posts. Not sure if the gentleman we were talking to is this specific guy but his stories lined up 100% with what Dave posted so I have no reason to doubt the low hp claims, heck, the guy told me himself standing right in front of me. No idea if this was an early build kit or a late build kit, doesn't really matter, what does matter is that there is probably a lot of guys out there that paid a lot of money for kits that are suppose to be giving them 45 extra hp when in reality they may be getting 1/4 of that. Sounds to me like Dave has it figured out what needs to be done, if you know for sure you're mpi turbo isn't making its potential I'd get in touch with him and let him help you. We'll be testing my stage 1 mpi turbo here fairly soon doing back to back runs with a new big core exhaust and the mpi quiet muffler so very excited to see the outcome!

Ask the guys that rode our Viper with the Yamaha trail kit this last weekend if any of them thought it was 1 150 horsepower sled.................lol Talk of the trail kit not producing over stock HP makes my bull alarm go off, you may find a sick install but ours ROCKS!

 

[Studroes144]

Ask the guys that rode our Viper with the Yamaha trail kit this last weekend if any of them thought it was 1 150 horsepower sled.................lol Talk of the trail kit not producing over stock HP makes my bull alarm go off, you may find a sick install but ours ROCKS!

I hear ya, my sled with the stage 1 was no slouch, Shen running it at 5 pounds it was an impressive machine and I'm sure it was making darn close to advertised hp. I just thought it was very interesting to read something online that was pretty controversial to a lot of people and then right out of the blue 2 weeks later I'm standing in front of a guy I've never met before and he's telling me of his experience with a certain setup that matches the exact post that Dave shared. I guess what I'm getting at is that if there's people with a certain kit that are very disappointed with the power to get in touch with the guys that know them best and have tested different things with them. From hearing this guys personal story I can say for a fact that Dave helped him find the problem, fix the problem and turned around and made the sled exactly what he was hoping for.

 

[staggs65]

Not trying to lose focus on the main topic in this one but wanna go back to the issues Dave posted with an mpi kit, like everyone I too was pretty dumbfounded when the post was made of a trail turbo only making 11 hp over stock, I knew the muffler was restrictive, but that restrictive?!? After being skeptical of that, fast forward to this past week, right before closing time I'm at the dealers (d&d) when a gentleman comes in to get some different weights for his cat 7000, between a few people that were in there there was some small talk that opened up to a very interesting conversation, the gentleman went on to say how he had an mpi turbo on his 7000 that he was not happy with, struggled getting it to run good, and finally ended up taking the sled to Dave where it ended up only making low 150's on their dyno, once he said that I was all ears cuz I had read and reread these posts. Not sure if the gentleman we were talking to is this specific guy but his stories lined up 100% with what Dave posted so I have no reason to doubt the low hp claims, heck, the guy told me himself standing right in front of me. No idea if this was an early build kit or a late build kit, doesn't really matter, what does matter is that there is probably a lot of guys out there that paid a lot of money for kits that are suppose to be giving them 45 extra hp when in reality they may be getting 1/4 of that. Sounds to me like Dave has it figured out what needs to be done, if you know for sure you're mpi turbo isn't making its potential I'd get in touch with him and let him help you. We'll be testing my stage 1 mpi turbo here fairly soon doing back to back runs with a new big core exhaust and the mpi quiet muffler so very excited to see the outcome!

The problem I had with that origional post was if I remember right he said the restrictive muffler was the problem. Doesn't make any sense when there's been plenty of trail kits to prove the 180hp on the dyno with that muffler. Unless that just happen to be a bad one or a bad batch, I know firsthand that can happen.

 

[Studroes144]

The problem I had with that origional post was if I remember right he said the restrictive muffler was the problem. Doesn't make any sense when there's been plenty of trail kits to prove the 180hp on the dyno with that muffler. Unless that just happen to be a bad one or a bad batch, I know firsthand that can happen.

I know first hand too that can happen, my original mpi quiet muffler didn't make it through the first season, luckily my dealer had an extra used one that got remove for a previous build so I could at least keep riding. I don't really care to share the details on that but I can see where there very well could've been some issues there.

 

[Studroes144]

The problem I had with that origional post was if I remember right he said the restrictive muffler was the problem. Doesn't make any sense when there's been plenty of trail kits to prove the 180hp on the dyno with that muffler. Unless that just happen to be a bad one or a bad batch, I know firsthand that can happen.

I know first hand too that can happen, my original mpi quiet muffler didn't make it through the first season, luckily my dealer had an extra used one that got remove for a previous build so I could at least keep riding. I don't really care to share the details on that but I can see where there very well could've been some issues there.

 

[cannondale27]

Just read this on Yamaha's canada site:
Note, I "highlighted" the last point...

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/eshop/de...Id=19&subGroupId=19&categoryId=26&itemId=5676

Unleash the potential of your SRViper by bolting on an additional 45 HP, available exclusively at Yamaha dealers.

• Designed to run on premium pump gas
• Offers significant performance gains across the entire RPM range
• Lightweight
• Quick spooling
• Ultra reliable
• Designed for operation at any altitude
• Clutch Kit is required for units used at elevations of 2500 feet and under, (includes weights, outer rivet (7.0g), centre rivet (7.0g), and inner rivet (13.3g), sold separetely
• Incompatible with all 2016 SRViper models

**While installation of these kits will not "void" your snowmobile's warranty, specific failures determined by Yamaha to have resulted from installation of kit components or other modifications may not be covered by the Yamaha limited warranty or extended service coverage.

Mountain Performance, Inc. Clutch Kit:
SMA-MPILE-CK-00 (2500ft and under)

Look.

 

[tator]

i know of 3 mpi trail turboed vipers in my area. and 2 hurricane turboed vipers, one being mine. all 5 are 14s, all three mpi where dealer built, and the two hurricane where built by owners. i have not raced any but i know all 3 mpi have been back to the dealers for turbo related issues. brackets, low boost, and low power at 4.5 lbs. i know one of the dealers is looking into changing turbo vendors because of the lengthy instal and the issues they have had. i talked to them about the new motor and they knew the rods are a problem, but didn't know if it was a bad batch or all. i know for a fact they used mpi for many years. they just think mpi stretched themselves a little to far trying to make so many kits. and are questioning why every other turbo vendors are not installing them on 16s and mpi is. (in US yet anyway) I'm not trying to knock mpi in general, if i had a nytro i would be serious about their supercharger. i just feel there are much better kits for the viper. when i started looking at kits it was between mpi and hurricane. if i was in the market now it would be between hurricane and EVO. with the edge to EVO, for they are only 1.5 hrs away from me which would be nice and i like their flash, watching their turbo flash for i am interested. but then again dave has been on here helping all of us with his info and findings, which means a lot about who he is and his final goal for us as riders, to have a great performing and reliable sled.

 

[stingray719]

i know of 3 mpi trail turboed vipers in my area. and 2 hurricane turboed vipers, one being mine. all 5 are 14s, all three mpi where dealer built, and the two hurricane where built by owners. i have not raced any but i know all 3 mpi have been back to the dealers for turbo related issues. brackets, low boost, and low power at 4.5 lbs. i know one of the dealers is looking into changing turbo vendors because of the lengthy instal and the issues they have had. i talked to them about the new motor and they knew the rods are a problem, but didn't know if it was a bad batch or all. i know for a fact they used mpi for many years. they just think mpi stretched themselves a little to far trying to make so many kits. and are questioning why every other turbo vendors are not installing them on 16s and mpi is. (in US yet anyway) I'm not trying to knock mpi in general, if i had a nytro i would be serious about their supercharger. i just feel there are much better kits for the viper. when i started looking at kits it was between mpi and hurricane. if i was in the market now it would be between hurricane and OSP. with the edge to OSP, for they are only 1.5 hrs away from me which would be nice and i like their flash, watching their turbo flash for i am interested. but then again dave has been on here helping all of us with his info and findings, which means a lot about who he is and his final goal for us as riders, to have a great performing and reliable sled.

Those 3 MPI you mention make "bad install" pop to mind when you say brackets, low boost, etc. But that is a guess as I am not there and have not seen it with my own eyes. I do know that part of the MPI install has a spacer that is slightly angle cut on the end and if you do not tighten according to directions WILL break the bracket and/or the case eventually. The install should include a boost test and adjustment if need be, I was cautioned by MPI to check boost after install. The low power MPI I helped with was a clutch issue....clutch you say we are talking boost! Yep, upshift too fast and low boost. Point is you can say anything is bad from a few failures....I blew up a stock Apex would it make sense if I said those are bad engines

Now about that low power MPI and trail muffler. Ours rocks at 8 pounds boost at 10k altitude. So it is not the muffler, maybe a defective muffler as that would not be a surprise but if the design was bad all would do that. Friend had a auto muffler shop and you might be surprised to see how many mufflers come apart inside and block flow

So our red viper has MPI and our blue viper (mine) has EVO. Its not cheap but everything else engineering wise and quality wise is a far second in my opinion. Find one and take a look and make up your own mind.

 

[ntm_08]

Unleash the potential of your SRViper by bolting on an additional 45 HP, available exclusively at Yamaha dealers.

• Designed to run on premium pump gas
• Offers significant performance gains across the entire RPM range
• Lightweight
• Quick spooling
• Ultra reliable
• Designed for operation at any altitude
• Clutch Kit is required for units used at elevations of 2500 feet and under, (includes weights, outer rivet (7.0g), centre rivet (7.0g), and inner rivet (13.3g), sold separetely
• Incompatible with all 2016 SRViper models

**While installation of these kits will not "void" your snowmobile's warranty, specific failures determined by Yamaha to have resulted from installation of kit components or other modifications may not be covered by the Yamaha limited warranty or extended service coverage.

Mountain Performance, Inc. Clutch Kit:
SMA-MPILE-CK-00 (2500ft and under)

 

[MCXPRESS USA]

New High Horsepower Rods For The Viper !
OEM Rod in Rear.

 

[InRBigness]

Well I guess I will be one of the few that will find out what is real and what will be covered. I have a 16 new build with an MPI trail turbo. So far I have 700 km's and no issues. I spring checked my sled and paid the 3,000 plus installation when I made the deal. In July I received a letter from Yamaha Canada congratulating me and offering me a MPI turbo for $2400. When I picked up my sled in mid November Yamaha rebated me the $600 difference with out an issue. The dealer called them to make sure they were not going to be holding the bag and were assured that no they would not and they were happy I was installing a turbo.

My perspective on all this, as I have stated before is that I was encouraged to purchase this turbo and have it install it in my sled from Yamaha Canada. It was installed by an authorized dealer as per their instructions. If it blows up, I would expect that they and the dealer will stand behind the sale. In my discussions with the dealer about this issue they have told me "to ride it, that why I have warranty and they will stand behind it." I will take them at their word. In reality what else can I do? Park it in the shed and not ride it? Take out the turbo? Seems silly to me.

I understand why Yamaha are not selling them for the 16's with this new information at this time until they are absolutely sure what they have going on. If there is a problem you are creating more blow back, if there is not then you have not lost anything. Time will tell.

Eventually or if it blows up, I will put in Carrillo rods, studs, injectors and bump it way up with a little help from Ulmer. Until then I will ride it like it was supposed to be ridden and enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[cannondale27]

And it could just be a few bad rods. We dont know. I wouldnt wish a blown motor on anyone. InRBigness I would do the same if in your shoes. I do think that Yamaha will stand behind you since you did everything by the book and before this new notice. Run it!

 

[HURRICANE]

We have the carrillo rods now for the new viper engine. We also are waiting for the cp pistons that are being made for us to accept yamaha rings

 

[cannondale27]

We have the carrillo rods now for the new viper engine. We also are waiting for the cp pistons that are being made for us to accept yamaha rings

I have always liked CP Pistons but why use Yamaha rings?

 

[Viper190MCX]

We have the carrillo rods now for the new viper engine. We also are waiting for the cp pistons that are being made for us to accept yamaha rings

Are these new CP pistons std compression, or can you get them as low comp also?
And do you know approximately when they will be available and the price?