XS 825 Belt

[ClutchMaster]

Put on 275 miles yesterday. 1.75 track with sidewinder clutches. XS825 belt.
Clutching work fine all day.
Groomers were out and it cooled off and track would hook up solid on acceleration on the trails pulling the skis at will on the 270r tune.
While doing this belt was slipping in the secondary clutch. 35° helix with TP orange spring set at 3-1.

Damn this belt will take some abuse!

How did you determine it was slipping in the secondary?

 

[1nc 2000]

How did you determine it was slipping in the secondary?

Secondary clutch was hotter than primary after doing a hard blast.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Generally the secondary won’t slip until your at close to, or over 1:1 ratio. The contact patch is double that of the primary clutch so it’s virtually impossible. Belt tension is the same for both clutches so the one with less surface area slips.
Secondary running warmer than the primary isn’t a bad thing. What was your approx temps?
It can happen but the sled will bog badly.

 

[1nc 2000]

I didn't have a temp gun but could hold my hand on the clutches. The secondary has black Mark's down deep at the 1 to 1 area. Primary also has some rubber up top but going by the temp I figured it was slipping in the secondary. Cleaned up the clutches this morning and Headed out now to go riding with some adjustments made already.

 

[Fast]

Would you rather pay$150/belt AND 13% tax like us from Ontario???? Thought not lol.[/QUOTE}
I know a lot on here don't like the stock 8jp since it is dirty and slips but after checking mine with 1500 miles it was barley worn, for $100 canadian tax in you can't go wrong

 

[74Nitro]

Well I only got about 700kms on my first XS belt before I snapped it in half, quite similar to the way I snapped the 8DN.
I was running hard when I blew the XS, a pack of Polaris sleds trying to hang with me on the local trails. It was a cold night, and I immediately put my hand on the primary, it was warm, not hot. When I snapped these belts, it was while accelerating, not at top speed. Given that the clutch wasn't hot, I don't think it is slipping the belt, I'm leaning towards too much pinch. Using the stock helix, thinking about a straight 39.
By no means do I want this to be taken as complaining. I usually get about 1000kms on a belt and these belts are not as expensive as other brands. These Winders are very powerful and very fast.
I have a neighbour with an 850 Doo that has blown 8 belts in less than 2500 miles.

 

[Kenneth Rogers]

Thanks for your input and all your help on this forum. I am aware of rpms falling off with this belt which is kinda what I want cause pulling 9300/9400 now and should put me down to what I need to be at. A little off subject, do you still have any of your old race sleds? Cause that 4max 4 was an awesome runner and I wonder if it would still be competitive today?

A friend of mine currently owns that vmax 4 800 pro stock. It is crazy fast still.

 

[jonlafon1]

Well I only got about 700kms on my first XS belt before I snapped it in half, quite similar to the way I snapped the 8DN.
I was running hard when I blew the XS, a pack of Polaris sleds trying to hang with me on the local trails. It was a cold night, and I immediately put my hand on the primary, it was warm, not hot. When I snapped these belts, it was while accelerating, not at top speed. Given that the clutch wasn't hot, I don't think it is slipping the belt, I'm leaning towards too much pinch. Using the stock helix, thinking about a straight 39.
By no means do I want this to be taken as complaining. I usually get about 1000kms on a belt and these belts are not as expensive as other brands. These Winders are very powerful and very fast.
I have a neighbour with an 850 Doo that has blown 8 belts in less than 2500 miles.

Knapp was selling a STM straight 38. This helix is more like a 40 though. I have no experience running any other weights with my stm 38. Just HH WEIGHTS. I can definitely help you with tat if you try.

 

[KnappAttack]

Well I only got about 700kms on my first XS belt before I snapped it in half, quite similar to the way I snapped the 8DN.
I was running hard when I blew the XS, a pack of Polaris sleds trying to hang with me on the local trails. It was a cold night, and I immediately put my hand on the primary, it was warm, not hot. When I snapped these belts, it was while accelerating, not at top speed. Given that the clutch wasn't hot, I don't think it is slipping the belt, I'm leaning towards too much pinch. Using the stock helix, thinking about a straight 39.
By no means do I want this to be taken as complaining. I usually get about 1000kms on a belt and these belts are not as expensive as other brands. These Winders are very powerful and very fast.
I have a neighbour with an 850 Doo that has blown 8 belts in less than 2500 miles.

With what I have learned this season I would be looking at a binding primary clutch. Since I have removed the factory winder primary and gone to the old style Yamaha primary, (RX-1 and Apex) my performance has improved greatly along with the roller and belt issues. And that's running on the big tunes, stock 35 helix, Dalton black/orange V1 secondary spring set at 80* or 90-95* depending on current conditions.

It's taken me literally 3 seasons to get to this point, trying different things even primary and secondary clutches to get to where I'm finally feeling good about the consistency, performance, belt life and roller life. I was thinking earlier this season the problems were in the secondary, I even spent some time with the Viper button secondary until settling on the issue being the Winder primary binding more that it should be doing. When lakercr broke his shaft on the primary I spent more time looking at the issue being the primary rather than the secondary, then I got freight trained by my buddies Winder while he was using his Apex clutch and I was running the Winder primary, I knew something wasn't right because we always ran side by side before, I also corded a XS825 belt on that same day.

I knew what I had to do, and that was go back to the RX-1 primary, the second I put it back on, I was anywhere from 5-7 MPH faster in my field using it over the Winder primary in the same distance, same day testing. So it was quicker and faster, and I haven't had any more belt issues since. The thing I really like is no more roller or belt issues and the increase in performance. Did the Winder clutch warp, bend of go bad? I can't answer that yet, I just know I'm not going back to it and using the secondary that I THOUGHT to be the problem clutch, turns out it wasn't the bad clutch I thought it to be after all.

 

[putz21]

With what I have learned this season I would be looking at a binding primary clutch. Since I have removed the factory winder primary and gone to the old style Yamaha primary, (RX-1 and Apex) my performance has improved greatly along with the roller and belt issues. And that's running on the big tunes, stock 35 helix, Dalton black/orange V1 secondary spring set at 80* or 90-95* depending on current conditions.

It's taken me literally 3 seasons to get to this point, trying different things even primary and secondary clutches to get to where I'm finally feeling good about the consistency, performance, belt life and roller life. I was thinking earlier this season the problems were in the secondary, I even spent some time with the Viper button secondary until settling on the issue being the Winder primary binding more that it should be doing. When lakercr broke his shaft on the primary I spent more time looking at the issue being the primary rather than the secondary, then I got freight trained by my buddies Winder while he was using his Apex clutch and I was running the Winder primary, I knew something wasn't right because we always ran side by side before, I also corded a XS825 belt on that same day.

I knew what I had to do, and that was go back to the RX-1 primary, the second I put it back on, I was anywhere from 5-7 MPH faster in my field using it over the Winder primary in the same distance, same day testing. So it was quicker and faster, and I haven't had any more belt issues since. The thing I really like is no more roller or belt issues and the increase in performance. Did the Winder clutch warp, bend of go bad? I can't answer that yet, I just know I'm not going back to it and using the secondary that I THOUGHT to be the problem clutch, turns out it wasn't the bad clutch I thought it to be after all.

Sounds like great results with the old Yamaha RX-1 primary. When you made the switch, did you have to add more weight or subtract weight to the primary weights?

 

[KnappAttack]

Sounds like great results with the old Yamaha RX-1 primary. When you made the switch, did you have to add more weight or subtract weight to the primary weights?

Just a tic more weight in the RX-1 primary. Not as much as I thought it would take. I believe the Winder was binding hard enough it was taking more weight just to keep it moving and sliding decent.

 

[justinator]

Are the rx-1 and apex primaries the same? I believe the rx-1 used larger rollers but is all else the same? Mike are you using the larger rollers on your winder or the 14.5's?

 

[KnappAttack]

Are the rx-1 and apex primaries the same? I believe the rx-1 used larger rollers but is all else the same? Mike are you using the larger rollers on your winder or the 14.5's?

I'm using the stock 15mm rollers on the stock 2003 RX-1 clutch I had sitting on the shelf. The RX clutch had 1000 miles on it stock and has about another 1000 on it in my winder. Rollers look new and I honestly don't even worry about them or check them much anymore.

Just a couple hundred miles on my winder primary this season and it already has the 14.8MM Thunder products rollers severely worn and looking real bad. The Winder primary ate more dollars in belts and rollers than the sled did in fuel the last three years! Glad this belt and roller stuff is now in the rearview mirror. The sled is finally where it should be, running consistently, fast and hopefully reliable. Took three years and lots of frustration to get it there!

 

[snowbeast]

I'm using the stock 15mm rollers on the stock 2003 RX-1 clutch I had sitting on the shelf. The RX clutch had 1000 miles on it stock and has about another 1000 on it in my winder. Rollers look new and I honestly don't even worry about them or check them much anymore.

Just a couple hundred miles on my winder primary this season and it already has the 14.8MM Thunder products rollers severely worn and looking real bad. The Winder primary ate more dollars in belts and rollers than the sled did in fuel the last three years! Glad this belt and roller stuff is now in the rearview mirror. The sled is finally where it should be, running consistently, fast and hopefully reliable. Took three years and lots of frustration to get it there!

Mike if you were to go on e-bay and look for a primary replacement clutch,would it be apex first choice or rx-1 and why? Oh ya,cant we just install the old apex clutch,change to winder weights,and go sledding! Can the same be said for the rx-1 primary!

 

[dustin]

Apex primary is working better for me as well. I have 700 miles on my belt and it still looks good. 500 miles was all I could get before I switched.