Yamaha RE-tooling for 2020

[SumpBuster]

They needed 850 2 strokes to get away from the '600' class 4 stroke apexs...lol!

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Sure what not go triple 2s and blow 850s away? A triple 2s would run a lot smoother than a Dolly Parton twin.

I wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha is sitting on, and about to release, some significantly weight reduced 4 stroke technology. It's hard to fathom what they are planning for 2020, but I kind of think it will be both a new 4-stroke engine, as well as a 2-stroke offering.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

Just my opinion......
They need to tighten up the winders,
Cvt system that can HANDLE the hp,
A chain case that can HANDLE hp,
A set of skis that WORK!!!!
North of 16 grand they better.

Completely clean up there engine management for REAL SNOWMOBILE CONDITIONS so we can enjoy the best built 4 strokes!!!!
Have a chassis that has a seat position LIKE A PROCROSS OR AXIS.
Have a 2 stroke offered in the states
Have a 150ish 4stroke to have options below the all mighty HOT ROD!!!!

I don’t want 20 million versions of snowmobiles each spring to drive down value and have dealers giving them away as leftovers.
Build a rock solid sled to justify 13-17 grand price tag that at least is owned for 5 yrs and operated to at least 10,000 miles.
Lastly bring the fuel mileage up which they can do.
If done... they be a force in the snow business.

 

[Sasquatch]

I think the four cylinder could live on, but Yamaha needs to update and it needs to have 170hp minimum out of the box in a great handling light chassis.

The engine has the perfect hp now!

 

[Sasquatch]

I also would like to see a NA version, power steering in new chassis, however it would have to be 170hp to sell against Doo and Pol, or otherwise it would be a flop.
Other manufacturers are facing problems with much inventory left over. Yet they keep getting more pushed on them. My local Polaris dealer said enough four years ago, and now he has no brands, just general service in the winter. Just this week another Polaris dealer in London Ontario said enough also as Polaris wanted him to sell many more units than he did the previous year. So there is 2 Polaris dealers gone within 1 hour from where I live.
I tend to think of this from a business point of view, that is why it makes sense to me in a shrinking sled market for Yamaha and Textron to share technology, engineering, product design and assembly lines.

The Apex engine that dynoed at 163 hp with a enriching of the fuel map but everyone said was 150hp is right there with Doo and only a few mph behind the 998 turbo in stock form! I'll take my 150hp EPS Apex 144 any day at 112mph, I've been told on here that the Doo can go that fast!

 

[Sasquatch]

well i can tell you there infamous ctec 600 2 stroke motor was developed by yamaha 5 years ago...

LMAO! Ya right!

 

[74Nitro]

The Apex engine that dynoed at 163 hp with a enriching of the fuel map but everyone said was 150hp is right there with Doo and only a few mph behind the 998 turbo in stock form! I'll take my 150hp EPS Apex 144 any day at 112mph, I've been told on here that the Doo can go that fast!

Sasquatch, D&D offered a kit that had higher RPM air horns, some bullseyes in the airbox along with a fuel map. Pulled 168 hp at 10800. I installed one of these on a customers sled, with good feedback. More is always better!
I'd actually like to see 175 NA

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch, D&D offered a kit that had higher RPM air horns, some bullseyes in the airbox along with a fuel map. Pulled 168 hp at 10800. I installed one of these on a customers sled, with good feedback. More is always better!
I'd actually like to see 175 NA

Id like to see 200 from a NA Apex engine! Maybe poke and stroke the 998 till 200 is on the table! We always seem to want more power it seems but the Apex at 150 to 160 is in the sweet spot. Its a number that has done very well on my big triple Cats 800 at 150hp and 1000 at 172, Yet the Warrior at 140 was as Fast and the Apex much faster then either of them! I would say as quick as well! So while I understand the quest for more hp and washing the decks with testosterone, I'm quite happy with my stock 150hp Apex hypersled! If they want to squeeze another 10 out of it I won't complain just more icing on a sweet cake!

 

[Heckler56]

I hear the faithful here speaking to the quality of Yamaha would allow them to run the business like Porsche. Most Porsche owners are in a metro area that has a dealership that can support that vehicle ownership. Rarely do I see one breakdown even when we track them.

Whitedust makes great points on the parts and service w/in distance. If my sled breakdowns in my favorite place of riding I have to turn to my backup sled as there are no dealers anywhere near. At home I did not have a dealer any closer than 90 miles until 3 months ago. And it just took the new dealer in town 1 1/2 months to replace the muffler & ecu. Every time I checked on the sled, their mechanic was traveling to take another Yamaha course. That is not a strong domain of knowledge for future repairs..

I do not agree that Yamaha is anywhere near the quality in snowmobiles to compare to a Porsche. Sure my experience is with a Viper and everyone bashes the Cat components. It is the Yamaha motor/ecu that is the problem not the Cat components. My local Cat dealer does not have these engine ecu issues the Vipers are having. Yamaha's answer is to go buy a SW. That is attitude GM used back in 1980 with their X body cars, I learned from that experience.

 

[DoktorC]

I hear the faithful here speaking to the quality of Yamaha would allow them to run the business like Porsche. Most Porsche owners are in a metro area that has a dealership that can support that vehicle ownership. Rarely do I see one breakdown even when we track them.

Whitedust makes great points on the parts and service w/in distance. If my sled breakdowns in my favorite place of riding I have to turn to my backup sled as there are no dealers anywhere near. At home I did not have a dealer any closer than 90 miles until 3 months ago. And it just took the new dealer in town 1 1/2 months to replace the muffler & ecu. Every time I checked on the sled, their mechanic was traveling to take another Yamaha course. That is not a strong domain of knowledge for future repairs..

I do not agree that Yamaha is anywhere near the quality in snowmobiles to compare to a Porsche. Sure my experience is with a Viper and everyone bashes the Cat components. It is the Yamaha motor/ecu that is the problem not the Cat components. My local Cat dealer does not have these engine ecu issues the Vipers are having. Yamaha's answer is to go buy a SW. That is attitude GM used back in 1980 with their X body cars, I learned from that experience.

Viper uses the cat ECU...

 

[74Nitro]

Viper uses the cat ECU...

And they had problems.

 

[cannondale27]

And they had problems.

I got to see the new Cat Wildcat XX this last weekend. It has the Yamaha Triple in it and the same Chineses Continental Cat Ecu the Viper has. Guess what. It also Idles like crap. Just like a Viper. Nothing like a YXZ or Winder. I am convinced either Cat can't tune or that ECU is junk.

 

[74Nitro]

I got to see the new Cat Wildcat XX this last weekend. It has the Yamaha Triple in it and the same Chineses Continental Cat Ecu the Viper has. Guess what. It also Idles like crap. Just like a Viper. Nothing like a YXZ or Winder. I am convinced either Cat can't tune or that ECU is junk.

Yep, a friend of mine has a 14 XTX Viper and it quit charging half way through the season. I told him it was probably a tooth from starter gear damage that had damaged the stator and rotor. Initially he didn't believe me, but that is what it was. Software updates had been done, and the extended warranty had ran out. He was furious. Sled still has less than fair idle quality and fussy starting IMO

 

[74Nitro]

Yep, a friend of mine has a 14 XTX Viper and it quit charging half way through the season. I told him it was probably a tooth from starter gear damage that had damaged the stator and rotor. Initially he didn't believe me, but that is what it was. Software updates had been done, and the extended warranty had ran out. He was furious. Sled still has less than fair idle quality and fussy starting IMO

In addition, it is unfortunate they couldn't put one of those small kickback clutches in the starting gear setup, much like many ATV's and bikes have. Would have saved Yamaha, AND Yamaha customers a lot of $$$$$

 

[Heckler56]

And they had problems.

So why not replace the ecu with their supplier of choice and eliminate these quality issues related to their engine? It seems rational to me to protect their "Brand" image. However, their approach is to let the consumer suffer. I went down that path with GM in the 1980s and it cost me money I did not have. As I mentioned to them about the muffler blow out, if this happens in an enclosed trailer we could be talking about irreparable damage to my ear drums or some other physical harm - and this would not be an outcome either of us would like to see.

I get that snowmobiles are a small segment to the manufacturer overall, but think if they replaced ECUs (with their supplier of choice) how much loyalty they would get from us consumers. That would move them in the consumers mind from being a consumable Brand to a Precision/Quality Brand (assuming they want to be like Porsche)...