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1,000ft

Trailleader said:
It could be but there is a lot of room under the hood on the Polaris also
I like cats so I’d get one but we have a couple years on these and they run well.
The Polaris motor is not what the cat of the past was. Who knows what the 858 will be though? 600 made same hp as 20 years ago so really kind of a turd
Looks like 2 smokes are what’s coming though which I know none of you want to hear.
I hope a 4 stroke turbo stays in the game

On a side note I’d take an 850 doo in my matrix
Click to expand...
Cat will be building there own 4 smokes.. NA and a turbo version.. Just a hunch.
 

Companies are profit driven… They will build things that have the best return on investment.. Right now thats 2 smokes which I think we can all agree on that … How is it a simple 2 stroke machine sells for $15,000 these days… way overpriced in my opinion….
 
Simplespeed said:
Companies are profit driven… They will build things that have the best return on investment.. Right now thats 2 smokes which I think we can all agree on that … How is it a simple 2 stroke machine sells for $15,000 these days… way overpriced in my opinion….
Click to expand...

Overpriced? Hard to say without knowing all of the costs. What the consumer has taught the manufacturers is that they can raise the price and still sell out inventory. It takes a bad winter like we are having to force a correction. If we had two bad winters in a row we would see a price correction for sure but its hard to say if something is overpriced if the manufacturer consistently sells out (under normal weather conditions). Unaffordable for the average person? That's a different kettle of fish altogether.
 
Simplespeed said:
Companies are profit driven… They will build things that have the best return on investment.. Right now thats 2 smokes which I think we can all agree on that … How is it a simple 2 stroke machine sells for $15,000 these days… way overpriced in my opinion….
Click to expand...

I'm seeing plenty of 600 Catalyst now advertised for low to mid $13K, but agree they are well overpriced for what it must cost them. Yamaha exiting the market is going to drive pricing higher along with less competition to bring good stuff to market.

When you look at what Side by Side MSRP's are running, its even more insane! I see them in the $35-50K range. Can get vehicles for less money that will last a whole lot longer! The profit margin on these toys has got to be downright stupid. Myself, I'm not playing this game and paying these stupid prices and padding their greedy pockets like this. They need to make money I understand, but corporate greed is way outta control! Until people say enough is enough, they will keep it going too. I don't get the SxS thing, and I have one. It's a fad that will soon pass I believe.
 
KnappAttack said:
I'm seeing plenty of 600 Catalyst now advertised for low to mid $13K, but agree they are well overpriced for what it must cost them. Yamaha exiting the market is going to drive pricing higher along with less competition to bring good stuff to market.

When you look at what Side by Side MSRP's are running, its even more insane! I see them in the $35-50K range. Can get vehicles for less money that will last a whole lot longer! The profit margin on these toys has got to be downright stupid. Myself, I'm not playing this game and paying these stupid prices and padding their greedy pockets like this. They need to make money I understand, but corporate greed is way outta control! Until people say enough is enough, they will keep it going too. I don't get the SxS thing, and I have one. It's a fad that will soon pass I believe.
Click to expand...
600 Catalyst at dealer near me is priced at $13,600 plus freight, set up, tax so your just under $15,000 out the door… Your right we all need to stop supporting corporate greed in many area’s and one good example is the latest contract the Big Three Auto companies just agreed too with the UAW… If anyone thought cars and trucks were expensive before , you ain’t seen nothing like whats coming… But we can combat it by not buying these vehicles .. Truth is Ford, GM and Chrysler may have cut their own throats … Time will tell … Hello Toyota your going to get real busy ……After the average American finds out they can no longer get credit and or afford to buy these overpriced vehicles maybe they will boycott … I see sleds in that same situation this spring… Dealers right now are loaded with overpriced sleds in my opinion..
 
Simplespeed said:
Your not alone Bob, I bet most on here have a toy or two they could do with out or at a minimum one they don’t use as much as they would like or intended. We are all part of the group that created these overpriced items..
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Yes, it's this dam snowmobile obsession...3 miles on the s.o.b. this year :mad: and always looking at new ones.
 
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earthling said:
Why is simple. 2-strokes engines allow manufacturers to deliver a product that has a level of performance sufficient to drive consumption (purchasing by the public) at far higher profit margins than they can manage with 4-stroke designs. IOW there is a ton of incentive to keep tweaking the 2-stroke. Also, from an engine design perspective, 2-strokes are far cheaper as an investment so its a cheaper cycle from design to production with 2-strokes.

The reason we don't like 2-strokes is that current 2-stroke technology must burn oil in the combustion cycle. The reason we like 2-strokes is that they have twice the volumetric efficiency of 4-strokes, meaning that for a given cylinder displacement they can put out twice the power (at theoretical limits) or more realistically, they can create more power for the same displacement.

A (potential) future; Modern 2-stroke engines are going to move away from port based intake/exhaust flow and move to better intake/exhaust management like valves in 4-strokes but the valves themselves come in all kinds of interesting designs. This requires external pressurization (supercharger) but eliminates the need to burn oil. Basically creating 4-stroke like timing control while leveraging 2-stroke efficiency. In the meantime, 2-stroke engines are cheaper to make, and cheaper to repair so for as long as the manufacturers can get away with whatever they need to do to pass EPA regulations they can inch their way into a more efficient 2-stroke future

Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this video. I remember the first Mazda wankel engine I saw on the bench as a kid and have always had interest in alternate engine technology. I hope we see Mazda build this. I chuckled during the part where the narrator discussed how the engine might sound. I recall the first 1100 turbo I heard with loud muffler. It sounded like a Cub Cadet lawnmower. LOL
 
SxS are very cool, but the financial outlay overrides desire.
Enough toys to keep me busy.
Put 85miles on sled, going in the right direction....
I'll head down to Florida soon, and see if snow returns for more riding.
Carry on....
 
Question, if I know im not riding for a month, or so. Does it help to loosen the tension on the drive track?
Yes, every off season.
 
Doc Harley said:
Question, if I know im not riding for a month, or so. Does it help to loosen the tension on the drive track?
Yes, every off season.
Click to expand...
Leave it tight ill tune it up for you while your gone.. Does it run on dirt and water?;)
 
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