2020 Release

[DVW]

Well Yamaha sadly may have shown the path they are going to take, we as Yamaha true blue's may get our 2 stroke but not from Yamaha, a blue colored Cat 600 and 800, Yamaha's Jap built VK540 is now part of cats utility sled line up as the bearcat xt, it is now written in stone the future path Yamaha is taking, all dreams and wishes are gone of Yamaha building their own chassis and having their own line up, sadly and with great disappointment I will have to look to and darken the door step of another sled brand that has their house in order and is standing proudly on their own two feet, hopefully my Apex will last for a while before this happens. Shame on you Yamaha!!!!

Yamaha is now supplying the VK540 utility machine to Arctic Cat as the Bearcat XT. On the surface this does not make sense. With this Bearcat they have 3 utility models using very different chassis designs. Arctic Cat does not need another utility machine especially one that uses a carbureted fan cooled 2-stroke. What's going on? OK there is a good market for this in Russia but I think Yamaha has got the lions share of that market so why would Arctic Cat try to compete with Yamaha with the same machine? On a related topic why is Yamaha letting their machines die on the vine or why are they not tailoring the Arctic Cat machines more for their market. Yamaha has done a good job with clutching and wind protection. Why not go further?
What is going on? Is there more to the story than a supplier agreement?

 

[biffdotorg]

Imo the North American market is too sophisticated for a blue stickered 2s. I don’t know why other parts of the world market would want a blue 2s maybe lack of competition?

Honestly, the blue on black is one of the sharpest color combinations next to the all blue SRX. It's 1000x better than the freakin' Ditch Pickle Green!!!! And BTW, friends don't let friends wear dayglow. (yup, it's a line from the late 80's, but true to this day) As as far as SXS go, the one that caught my attention before the Yamaha YXZ was released, was the 2014 Viper Blue (Yamaha Blue) Wildcat X. I feel like a woman just saying that, but color gets my attention over function. Nobody builds crap anymore. We all talk trash about other brands, but honestly, we would all be happy on just about anything that met our power and ride quality needs.

 

[whitedust1]

Honestly, the blue on black is one of the sharpest color combinations next to the all blue SRX. It's 1000x better than the freakin' Ditch Pickle Green!!!! And BTW, friends don't let friends wear dayglow. (yup, it's a line from the late 80's, but true to this day) As as far as SXS go, the one that caught my attention before the Yamaha YXZ was released, was the 2014 Viper Blue (Yamaha Blue) Wildcat X. I feel like a woman just saying that, but color gets my attention over function. Nobody builds crap anymore. We all talk trash about other brands, but honestly, we would all be happy on just about anything that met our power and ride quality needs.

I like blue graphics more than green but my comments were posted as more aynalitical point of view regarding marketing and sales potential. Imo if North American buyers are interested in AC 2s they would simply buy one. True blue Yamaha faithful are 4 strokers understand that that decision was made in 2003 and look for Yamaha to advance the 4s tech. Nothing wrong with wanting a 2s plenty available from doo, poo and cat.

 

[biffdotorg]

Yup, understood your point, that makes complete sense. And my point is less functional, I just can't buy a ditch pickle green sled. When I replaced the Phazer with the Viper, I wanted a Yamaha blue Viper. Even though I could have bought the day-glow green AC 7000 for less and locally.

If and when I decide to replace my Apex, it would have to be one hell of a deal to buy a green 9000 over a blue Sidewinder. And it's truly just cosmetics. People can piss and moan about clutching and shocks etc. But if I can get the same shock package and track setup, I'm happy with either. It just won't be green. So if I wanted to go back to 2S, I would be one of those guys that would probably go get the Yamaha stickered one. Guys would laugh at me, but I am good at ignoring the haters. As a Yamaha owner, I've been doing it for too many years already. There are no true blue Yamahas left in our sled group other than me.

 

[Sasquatch]

I agree. I think the 4s is the baddest sled on snow for our area, non mountain/big snow climbers.
I think the next phase of sledding may be a Hybrid, weather full electric or gas/electric mode. The acceleration/torque is amazing and the fuel economy/range will be awesome.
My sons Fusion hybrid has 200k miles and only has needed tires. With regen braking it still has the original brakes and battery. Some taxi cabs in NY have 800k on them with zero issues.
Could you imagine not having to put $4 or $5 a gallon fuel in anymore.

Hybrid might work on trail but as a sled even on trail consumes a larger amount of energy then say a car which needs only about 6hp to maintain speed, that being said on trail could work. Off trail would be a different animal as huge amount of power needed to move in snow and or climb in snow. Add to that the weight of the motors both electric and gas with the added large lithium ion battery. Lastly an electric or hybrid vehicle can be upwards of double the cost of a gas only powered vehicle. I looked at an electric car for town and back but I could buy a gas for half the price and use the 20,000 I saved to fuel and maintain. Its the main reason electric or hybrid has not caught on. The price, I don't think that I want to pay double for a sled!

 

[Sasquatch]

Yamaha is now supplying the VK540 utility machine to Arctic Cat as the Bearcat XT. On the surface this does not make sense. With this Bearcat they have 3 utility models using very different chassis designs. Arctic Cat does not need another utility machine especially one that uses a carbureted fan cooled 2-stroke. What's going on? OK there is a good market for this in Russia but I think Yamaha has got the lions share of that market so why would Arctic Cat try to compete with Yamaha with the same machine? On a related topic why is Yamaha letting their machines die on the vine or why are they not tailoring the Arctic Cat machines more for their market. Yamaha has done a good job with clutching and wind protection. Why not go further?
What is going on? Is there more to the story than a supplier agreement?

Well the best answer I can come up with is Yamaha is not in charge, nor is Arctic Cat. The VK is a great trapper sled and is simple to maintain and repair. Its tougher lighter and has less to damage in the bush. It can be ran on frozen snow with no need for cooling at slow enough speeds to pull a sleigh without burning up the sliders. Trappers and fisherman love them!

Arctic Cat And Yamaha will basically become one company and share everything. Dealers will decide who survives?

 

[biffdotorg]

Hybrid might work on trail but as a sled even on trail consumes a larger amount of energy then say a car which needs only about 6hp to maintain speed, that being said on trail could work. Off trail would be a different animal as huge amount of power needed to move in snow and or climb in snow. Add to that the weight of the motors both electric and gas with the added large lithium ion battery. Lastly an electric or hybrid vehicle can be upwards of double the cost of a gas only powered vehicle. I looked at an electric car for town and back but I could buy a gas for half the price and use the 20,000 I saved to fuel and maintain. Its the main reason electric or hybrid has not caught on. The price, I don't think that I want to pay double for a sled!

Again, I am agreeing with you ( I have to say that to help deflect further backlash, HA) It's a good thing that younger folks with a growth mindset are developing this rather than us close-minded old farts. As they are testing units loaded at or under 500lbs. I say "this is a prototype and has not been built yet" and then the second article shows the University kids in their annual electric and hybrid snowmobile competition.

In this case, I like being proven wrong. I still don't see how it can have enough charge, when my iPhone and GoPro die in minutes where we ride.

https://electrek.co/2018/03/03/tesla-inspired-taiga-electric-snowmobile/

Check out the ride video on the above link!

And this zero emissions competition was 10 years ago!! Imagine the technology we have now that we didn't have then.

https://news.wisc.edu/uw-madison-team-zaps-competition-with-electric-snowmobile/

 

[Sasquatch]

Yup, understood your point, that makes complete sense. And my point is less functional, I just can't buy a ditch pickle green sled. When I replaced the Phazer with the Viper, I wanted a Yamaha blue Viper. Even though I could have bought the day-glow green AC 7000 for less and locally.

If and when I decide to replace my Apex, it would have to be one hell of a deal to buy a green 9000 over a blue Sidewinder. And it's truly just cosmetics. People can piss and moan about clutching and shocks etc. But if I can get the same shock package and track setup, I'm happy with either. It just won't be green. So if I wanted to go back to 2S, I would be one of those guys that would probably go get the Yamaha stickered one. Guys would laugh at me, but I am good at ignoring the haters. As a Yamaha owner, I've been doing it for too many years already. There are no true blue Yamahas left in our sled group other than me.

My Warrior is red, my Apex is blue (not the yamaha blue a nice metallic blue) but only because I would not pay a thousand dollars more for red. My Cats where black, one with a green sticker and one that was a baby blue color. The T-Cat with the Yamaha engine I looked at was Black red and white same colors as the Viper had. With the removal of one sticker I never had a green Cat. Cats where Black and Yamaha's where white. But nothing is as ugly as the Yamaha Blue yellow that makes me want to puke special edition, I think I would buy a green sled first and I don't like that color.

 

[whitedust1]

Well the best answer I can come up with is Yamaha is not in charge, nor is Arctic Cat. The VK is a great trapper sled and is simple to maintain and repair. Its tougher lighter and has less to damage in the bush. It can be ran on frozen snow with no need for cooling at slow enough speeds to pull a sleigh without burning up the sliders. Trappers and fisherman love them!

Arctic Cat And Yamaha will basically become one company and share everything. Dealers will decide who survives?

How does that happen? Textron not buying Yamaha and Yamaha not buying Textron so imo 1 company owning both technologies is not going to happen. Blue stickered 2s is laughable in my opinion and the market is saturated with green and blue Vipers and Sidewinders. Yamaha has something up their sleeves to replace the Apex and Vector beyond Sidewinders and Vipers. Yamaha is not stupid they tried the dual branded Yamacats rode that horse thru the term of the agreement. Yamaha won’t orphan the Sidewinder or Vipers users they will make sure this support and additional sales keeps up to a point but time to go it alone with limited production of their own snowmobile.

 

[Sasquatch]

Again, I am agreeing with you ( I have to say that to help deflect further backlash, HA) It's a good thing that younger folks with a growth mindset are developing this rather than us close-minded old farts. As they are testing units loaded at or under 500lbs. I say "this is a prototype and has not been built yet" and then the second article shows the University kids in their annual electric and hybrid snowmobile competition.

In this case, I like being proven wrong. I still don't see how it can have enough charge, when my iPhone and GoPro die in minutes where we ride.

https://electrek.co/2018/03/03/tesla-inspired-taiga-electric-snowmobile/

Check out the ride video on the above link!

And this zero emissions competition was 10 years ago!! Imagine the technology we have now that we didn't have then.


https://news.wisc.edu/uw-madison-team-zaps-competition-with-electric-snowmobile/

Its very cool but for a 20,000cd dollar sled it still is expensive and has all the electric problem such as no range and I question top speed and it the range of 100k at full throttle or in deep snow. Sadly they never showed any potential in that vid such as acceleration or speed.

Even 60 miles will not get me to the next gas station so we need a hybrid and have to add the weight of a gas engine with generator and fuel tank ect. A day ride for me is 150 miles to 250 miles but I'm sure there are some who would be interested in this electric sled.

No mention of top end but probably 60mph the new 3000 will do that and get better range. So I'm still out and they are a long ways off from replacing my Apex. I like the idea of electric but unless they can come up with something with the same convenience or close as gas that you can just pull up and 5 min later you have another 500 miles of fuel I'll drive a gas car. With a sled I can pull up and 5 min later I'm good for another 100 miles.

The Tesla Car will go 400kms without heat or AC, a trip to the City is 360kms so questionable. It has the best range out there but still a hour charge min to get 80% or two hours so I can go home. Add to that a 120,000 dollar plus car and I can but a nice luxuary car for les the 60,000 and you see the problem.

I applaud what they have done and as a Yellowstone sled rental its perfect, but to compete with gas as a fuel source it is lacking! The problem always is for electric you need two vehicles one for short trips and one for travel.

 

[Sasquatch]

How does that happen? Textron not buying Yamaha and Yamaha not buying Textron so imo 1 company owning both technologies is not going to happen. Blue stickered 2s is laughable in my opinion and the market is saturated with green and blue Vipers and Sidewinders. Yamaha has something up their sleeves to replace the Apex and Vector beyond Sidewinders and Vipers. Yamaha is not stupid they tried the dual branded Yamacats rode that horse thru the term of the agreement. Yamaha won’t orphan the Sidewinder or Vipers users they will make sure this support and additional sales keeps up to a point but time to go it alone with limited production of their own snowmobile.

Well I thought Blue stickered Cats was laughable from day one but yet here we are! We can all dream of a true Yamaha, I do all the time and have since 2014. I used to dream of an Apex replacement as well. How did that work out for me? How long before your dreams fade?

 

[greatwhite89]

EPS. Performance Dampers. Yamaha chip controlled throttle. Yamaha Reactive Suspension System. Rear exit exhaust. Singleshot suspension. Yamaha sure has a lot of their own patented technology hanging out there Let's hope it all comes together in one "pure" badass Yamaha for 2020!!

 

[whitedust1]

Well I thought Blue stickered Cats was laughable from day one but yet here we are! We can all dream of a true Yamaha, I do all the time and have since 2014. I used to dream of an Apex replacement as well. How did that work out for me? How long before your dreams fade?

It’s all coming to a head with 2020 line up. The obvious new Yamaha sled , low production Vipers and Sidewinders or done fold up become an OEM engine supplier only. The market is saturated with dual branded products so I have to think both companies would NOT continue to past unit production and would be more concerned and conservative of what is next for the financial health of their entities. Furthermore I’m not convinced Textron cares about AC snowmobile business so would logically even cares less for the Yamaha OEM relationship. Yamaha knows the score they have been meeting with Textron upper management and are ready for what is next. To me inventory reduction program was the logical wind down to separation and part as friends with some mutual support for engines and chassis so customers are well supported. I retired from the industrial OEM business and this is how you separate and or continue the OEM relationship at lower production levels. Both Textron and Yamaha have vast OEM relationships with other companies so others are watching how this goes. Textron imo needs to be careful how this progresses Yamaha knows how to separate been there done that with their vast engine product line.

 

[20/80]

Something else I was wondering, Yamaha and Textron have a trade agreement not a partnership, so they traded three engines, the snow scoot, Viper, sidewinder engines for chassis, so what will Yamaha get for the VK 540 where it is all Yamaha? a 2stroke 600 Cat utility painted blue? I believe they are already being sold over seas and soon will appear in show rooms in this part of the woods for 2020.

 

[Sasquatch]

It’s all coming to a head with 2020 line up. The obvious new Yamaha sled , low production Vipers and Sidewinders or done fold up become an OEM engine supplier only. The market is saturated with dual branded products so I have to think both companies would NOT continue to past unit production and would be more concerned and conservative of what is next for the financial health of their entities. Furthermore I’m not convinced Textron cares about AC snowmobile business so would logically even cares less for the Yamaha OEM relationship. Yamaha knows the score they have been meeting with Textron upper management and are ready for what is next. To me inventory reduction program was the logical wind down to separation and part as friends with some mutual support for engines and chassis so customers are well supported. I retired from the industrial OEM business and this is how you separate and or continue the OEM relationship at lower production levels. Both Textron and Yamaha have vast OEM relationships with other companies so others are watching how this goes. Textron imo needs to be careful how this progresses Yamaha knows how to separate been there done that with their vast engine product line.

I agree its coming to a head in 2020. Yamaha has claimed new sleds all along and each one was a Cat shared with Yamaha so please don't be angry if I say ho hum a new Catamaha! I think it will be a continued relationship of Cat sharing thier chassis and Yamaha their motors. I think with what CR has said and with what Port has said this has all been indeed a way to keep Yamaha dealers supplied and used to the idea of selling Cat supplied sleds. I think it worked as dealers sold them and customers bought them and Yamaha made money! Unless there is a huge up surge in the market I just can't see Yamaha leaving to build sleds on their own.