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2020 Release

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STAIN said:
Those numbers are very misleading.It shows sled sales. Trails sleds ride almost exclusively trails, Crossover sleds ride mostly trails. Some mountain sleds are on the trails. I see and ride with people who ride mountain sleds almost entirely on trails. How many 121's are in the hills? None.There is no way there are more people riding mountains than trail riding.
I agree the mountain segment is a great place to introduce new engine/clutch tech as mountain riding is very hard on these components. The trail market is the bread and butter of the industry.
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I agree on this.
 

Monster Max said:
How can total sled sales be misleading? There are more mountain sleds bought per year than trail sleds. So if you are a manufacturer you are looking at what is selling...not what's on the trails. That is why most of the new goodies end up in the mountain segment and where they make their money. This is where Yamaha is so far back.
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That is like saying since Ford sold so many F150 4X4's that everyone is into four wheeling. Not true. They don't sell more mountain sleds than trail sleds unless you are counting crossovers as a mountain sled, which I hardly do. Most crossovers are bought for the perceived better ride of a longer sled. Shoot, I had older friends 25 years ago buying touring sleds because that was the only way to get a 136. They knew back then they rode better and bought them for that. Not because they were touring.
 
Wannaviper said:
My dad used to say: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." (in that order.) I looked up Yamaha's "Fact Book" for 2014 and 2015 with write-ups for snowmobile sales in 2013 and 2014 respectively. The reason why they sold 21,000 sleds in 2014 can be summed up in one word, "RUSSIA". According to Yamaha's reports, in 2014, Russia bought 9,000 sleds, or 42.7% of Yamaha snowmobile sales. In 2017, your graphic shows that Russia only bought 1,000 sleds, or 9.8% of Yamaha's sled sales. I don't know why Russia stopped buying Yamahas; maybe because they were built in the U.S.? According to Yamaha's own reports, they only sold 4,000 sleds in the U.S. in both 2013 and 2014. Your graphic shows that they sold 3,000 sleds in the U.S. in 2017. That is a 25% reduction, but 20-25% is consistent with the sales reduction in the entire snowmobile industry during that same time period. By 2017, the vast majority of the 3,000 sleds Yamaha sold had to be Pro Cross chassis sleds, either Vipers or Sidewinders, and let's not forget about all the Arctic Cat 7000 series sleds and Thundercats (Vipers & Sidewinders in AC clothing) sold in 2017. If you added AC's numbers to the 3,000 sleds Yamaha sold in the U.S., I'll bet Yamaha sold more sleds (or sled engines) in 2017 than they did in 2013 or 2014. Let's face it, we know that the delta box sleds and Phazers weren't selling in 2017, otherwise they wouldn't have discontinued them.
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Didn't Russia's economy take dive right about then?
 
Wannaviper said:
My dad used to say: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." (in that order.) I looked up Yamaha's "Fact Book" for 2014 and 2015 with write-ups for snowmobile sales in 2013 and 2014 respectively. The reason why they sold 21,000 sleds in 2014 can be summed up in one word, "RUSSIA". According to Yamaha's reports, in 2014, Russia bought 9,000 sleds, or 42.7% of Yamaha snowmobile sales. In 2017, your graphic shows that Russia only bought 1,000 sleds, or 9.8% of Yamaha's sled sales. I don't know why Russia stopped buying Yamahas; maybe because they were built in the U.S.? According to Yamaha's own reports, they only sold 4,000 sleds in the U.S. in both 2013 and 2014. Your graphic shows that they sold 3,000 sleds in the U.S. in 2017. That is a 25% reduction, but 20-25% is consistent with the sales reduction in the entire snowmobile industry during that same time period. By 2017, the vast majority of the 3,000 sleds Yamaha sold had to be Pro Cross chassis sleds, either Vipers or Sidewinders, and let's not forget about all the Arctic Cat 7000 series sleds and Thundercats (Vipers & Sidewinders in AC clothing) sold in 2017. If you added AC's numbers to the 3,000 sleds Yamaha sold in the U.S., I'll bet Yamaha sold more sleds (or sled engines) in 2017 than they did in 2013 or 2014. Let's face it, we know that the delta box sleds and Phazers weren't selling in 2017, otherwise they wouldn't have discontinued them.
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The numbers I reported and graphics are directly from Yamaha's web sight. If there are inconsistencies in the data that's on Yamaha explain. I'm not going to go into world economics, just trying to present the rawest data available for everyone to see. It is really hard to argue with facts from the Yamaha facebook provided from the Yamaha corporate page. Total units sold in a given year easy to pick off the graphic. it doesn't matter if they were sold in Hawaii, Moscow, or Michigan. and It doesn't matter if industry sales are up or down 25%. Yamaha's total sales worldwide of 11,000 is embarrassingly small. Facts are always better than the anecdote that I have Yamaha 4-stroke and I see them all over where I ride so sales must be increasing. Wrong!!
 
Cat 2st will be sold by Yamaha. Yamaha chassis to hold it and the 4strokes is in the works but not a for sure thing. We are in for some excitement next year for sure.
 
What if Yamaha bought out Arctic Cat? They would get all the tech and textron would get rid of it all together? Maybe that is why it is Arctic Cat and not Textron like the rest of the stuff??????
 
cannondale27 said:
Cat 2st will be sold by Yamaha. Yamaha chassis to hold it and the 4strokes is in the works but not a for sure thing. We are in for some excitement next year for sure.
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My whole life growing up, i would look under an Arctic Cat hood & see names like Susuki, Kawasaki & Spirit.
To age myself i remember JLO, Sachs Wankel, Hirth & i'm sure others could chime in with more.
Now there may be an Arctic Cat motor under the hood of another manufacturer!
What's next? A black President? Third gender bathrooms?

WOW! These 2000's are getting crazy!
 
stevewithOCD said:
My whole life growing up, i would look under an Arctic Cat hood & see names like Susuki, Kawasaki & Spirit.
To age myself i remember JLO, Sachs Wankel, Hirth & i'm sure others could chime in with more.
Now there may be an Arctic Cat motor under the hood of another manufacturer!
What's next? A black President? Third gender bathrooms?

WOW! These 2000's are getting crazy!
Click to expand...
Don't forget country wide legalized marijuana !!! :rofl:
 
So, will we hit a 100 pages before the 2020 release?
Will we be in for a major shock?
I think no matter what happens, with the winters we have had and the price of sleds no matter what motor it has, will the sled sales still continue to decline?
 
03RX1-ER-LE said:
So, will we hit a 100 pages before the 2020 release?
Will we be in for a major shock?
I think no matter what happens, with the winters we have had and the price of sleds no matter what motor it has, will the sled sales still continue to decline?
Click to expand...
The only market that wont decline is the mountain market because you can ride 6,7,maybe 8 months out of the year. If your Chris Braundt you might even get 10 months.
 
TrueBlue said:
Not true if the 2 strokes didn't have electric start like my Viper. Recoil broke & could not get it started.
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This makes no sense at all, In my last post I said, there are current two strokes that do not come with a recoil as well. There are 3-4 in my sled group.

This is not a 2s 4s debate, this is a stock recoil debate. If a recoil fails on a sled, or if a starter fails on a sled with no recoil, you are in the same boat. And if you think you cannot start your sled, you need to pull out your phone on the side of the trail and learn how to wrap your backup rope around the primary. Again, that's the same for 2s or 4s. Vipers are not the only sleds that ship without a recoil.

(and yes, it is possible to clutch start a 4s, it's just not as easy of a pull) This is way off topic, so I will let this go for now.
 
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