2020 Release

[whitedust1]

No lol

Oh yes nothing to do with planes and trains maybe sold off 5 years ago. It’s been awhile check it out.

 

[Wannaviper]

The numbers I reported and graphics are directly from Yamaha's web sight. If there are inconsistencies in the data that's on Yamaha explain. I'm not going to go into world economics, just trying to present the rawest data available for everyone to see. It is really hard to argue with facts from the Yamaha facebook provided from the Yamaha corporate page. Total units sold in a given year easy to pick off the graphic. it doesn't matter if they were sold in Hawaii, Moscow, or Michigan. and It doesn't matter if industry sales are up or down 25%. Yamaha's total sales worldwide of 11,000 is embarrassingly small. Facts are always better than the anecdote that I have Yamaha 4-stroke and I see them all over where I ride so sales must be increasing. Wrong!!

I agree that 11,000 sleds worldwide is not a good sign for Yamaha, and that may well be why Yamaha took a year off to clear the inventory backlog. The point of my post was simply that putting Yamaha engines in the Pro Cross chassis was probably a financial success. We are talking about what Yamaha will do in 2020, and the profitability (or lack thereof) of the Yamaha-Arctic Cat partnership will have a big effect on what Yamaha does in 2020. Let's look at the "facts":

FACT: In 2013 & 2014 Yamaha sold 4,000 sleds per year in the U.S. based upon numbers direct from Yamaha.
FACT: The industry is on an overall downward sales trend. According to statistica.com, global snowmobile sales were 157,106 in 2013/2014 and slipped to 118,657 in 2016/2017, a reduction of almost exactly 25%.
FACT: In 2017, Yamaha also had a 25% reduction sales reduction in the U.S., just like the rest of the industry, selling 3,000 sleds.
FACT: In addition to the 3,000 sleds, Yamaha was also selling Viper and Sidewinder engines to Arctic Cat for the 7000 series sleds and Thundercats. Every one of those AC sleds sold was a Viper or a Sidewinder with Arctic Cat graphics, and more importantly, money in Yamaha's pocket.
CONCLUSION: In 2017 the combined number of Viper (7000) and Sidewinder (Thundercat) sales prevented Yamaha from suffering the 25% loss of sales suffered by the rest of the industry. I suspect that Yamaha views that as a financial success.

Anecdotal or not, I really do see more "Yamacats" and "Catahas" than I used to see pure Yamahas on the trails. That may be due in part to the fact that there are now 5 years worth of Viper sales, and because of those Yamaha engines, most of them are still on the trail.

 

[whitedust1]

Exactly the sales of Apex and Vector have been slowing for years and the Viper and Sidewinder were selling much better until that market became saturated too for lots of reasons. Yamaha pulled the plug for 2019 went to inventory reduction and SRX. Imo if Textron doesn’t have a new chassis for 2020 Yamaha will only produce Yamacats to fill Spring orders . If Yamaha has their own new sled it would be a vertical grow pattern for that product.

 

[cannondale27]

What if Yamaha bought out Arctic Cat? They would get all the tech and textron would get rid of it all together? Maybe that is why it is Arctic Cat and not Textron like the rest of the stuff??????

Maybe they did already. Who has actually seen the agreement?

 

[whitedust1]

Maybe they did already. Who has actually seen the agreement?

Yamaha would have to announce an AC acquisition to their stockholders. As far as continuing the OEM Agreement that is a rumor imo but makes sense to do so. Yamaha isn’t interested in buying AC or would have done so. Textron doesn’t have anyone but Yamaha to sell the snowmobile division but would have to be cheap cheap for Yamaha to purchase.

 

[biffdotorg]

Maybe they did already. Who has actually seen the agreement?

This would have had to have been approved by the FTC as publicly traded companies. Only private companies could pull off an acquisition in secret. Intentions to acquire would hit the news well before an announcement. I do believe that was even the case when Textron acquired AC.

 

[Turtle]

What if Yamaha bought out Arctic Cat? They would get all the tech and textron would get rid of it all together? Maybe that is why it is Arctic Cat and not Textron like the rest of the stuff??????

Would the DOJ even allow Yamaha to purchase Cat? They get pretty touchy about that sort of thing when it comes to the amount of competition in a market. I've seen the DOJ step in when the company I work for has bought another business. They can limit what the company acquires, make the company sell of other portions, or kill the deal altogether just to ensure the market has adequate competition.

 

[STAIN]

I agree that 11,000 sleds worldwide is not a good sign for Yamaha, and that may well be why Yamaha took a year off to clear the inventory backlog. The point of my post was simply that putting Yamaha engines in the Pro Cross chassis was probably a financial success. We are talking about what Yamaha will do in 2020, and the profitability (or lack thereof) of the Yamaha-Arctic Cat partnership will have a big effect on what Yamaha does in 2020. Let's look at the "facts":

FACT: In 2013 & 2014 Yamaha sold 4,000 sleds per year in the U.S. based upon numbers direct from Yamaha.
FACT: The industry is on an overall downward sales trend. According to statistica.com, global snowmobile sales were 157,106 in 2013/2014 and slipped to 118,657 in 2016/2017, a reduction of almost exactly 25%.
FACT: In 2017, Yamaha also had a 25% reduction sales reduction in the U.S., just like the rest of the industry, selling 3,000 sleds.
FACT: In addition to the 3,000 sleds, Yamaha was also selling Viper and Sidewinder engines to Arctic Cat for the 7000 series sleds and Thundercats. Every one of those AC sleds sold was a Viper or a Sidewinder with Arctic Cat graphics, and more importantly, money in Yamaha's pocket.
CONCLUSION: In 2017 the combined number of Viper (7000) and Sidewinder (Thundercat) sales prevented Yamaha from suffering the 25% loss of sales suffered by the rest of the industry. I suspect that Yamaha views that as a financial success.

Anecdotal or not, I really do see more "Yamacats" and "Catahas" than I used to see pure Yamahas on the trails. That may be due in part to the fact that there are now 5 years worth of Viper sales, and because of those Yamaha engines, most of them are still on the trail.

 

[cannondale27]

Not talking the entire company. Just Snowmobiles. Heck even a real tight contract would be all that’s needed. Where is the original agreement/contract? Would be interesting reading.

 

[cannondale27]

Yamaha would have to announce an AC acquisition to their stockholders. As far as continuing the OEM Agreement that is a rumor imo but makes sense to do so. Yamaha isn’t interested in buying AC or would have done so. Textron doesn’t have anyone but Yamaha to sell the snowmobile division but would have to be cheap cheap for Yamaha to purchase.

The guys in Cat Snowmobile division built Cat. They are a small group of smart people. I have no doubt there is a lot of fine print in any agreement they made with Corporate Yamaha. Wish I knew exactly what it was and is now.

 

[Wannaviper]

I guess we can dream. There are obviously some pretty talented people at Cat, and if Yamaha did buy them out, they would become a force to be reckoned with in the snowmobile world.

 

[ccmviper]

Cat 2st will be sold by Yamaha. Yamaha chassis to hold it and the 4strokes is in the works but not a for sure thing. We are in for some excitement next year for sure.

Do you mean the 4 stroke is not a for sure thing in the new chassis?

 

[whitedust1]

Not talking the entire company. Just Snowmobiles. Heck even a real tight contract would be all that’s needed. Where is the original agreement/contract? Would be interesting reading.

OEM Agreements are private business contracts never intended for public viewing. Both Yamaha and Textron would make a general PR announcement letting the public know they have an agreement followed by how wonderful the whole thing is. Lol. Contracts at that level are full of legalese Corp lawyer to Corp lawyer and it is up to everyday engineers and production people to make it work. Corps only go back to the small print when a change is in the wind.

 

[cannondale27]

OEM Agreements are private business contracts never intended for public viewing. Both Yamaha and Textron would make a general PR announcement letting the public know they have an agreement followed by how wonderful the whole thing is. Lol. Contracts at that level are full of legalese Corp lawyer to Corp lawyer and it is up to everyday engineers and production people to make it work. Corps only go back to the small print when a change is in the wind.

Yup and it’s to both companies advantage to have both survive even if it’s in name only. Why drive customers to Doo or Poo?

 

[cannondale27]

Do you mean the 4 stroke is not a for sure thing in the new chassis?

No. I mean a 2st cat motor in Yamaha/Cat along with the 4 st Yamaha motor is for sure but the Yamaha chassis is not a sure thing. So you will be able to buy a 2st or 4st Yamaha next year. If 2st is in Cat chassis it’s just Yamaha name. If in a Yamaha chassis then it’s a hybrid and if Yamaha chassis and 4st it’s a purebred Yamaha!