2020 Release

[SumpBuster]

I think this outperforms them all!
(Can't find an old pic with the hood on..lol)
Laser! Just the name scares the others away! Til the clutch bolt broke and it fell off running. Kind of hovered for a second then hit the barn door.

Old reliable! Always managed to limp home!

The old mudflaps used to say 'You've just been Skirouled'
LOL!

 

[STAIN]

Hmmm mine doesn't do any of those things. 12,000 miles bushings are tight, never cracked an arm, what is this inside ski lift you speak of? Change sliders every 3,000 miles or more

Really? Really?
You must ride table top smooth trails then at slow speeds if you NEVER wear anything out or lift a ski!!!!
I owned a 2012 Apex eps. Needed front bushings at 1200 miles. Just had a Vector in the shop with 5k miles with NO bushings left in the left a-arms.
EVERY Delta box I have owned need bushings at @1500 miles. EVERY Delta box needed larger wheels to curb quick sled wear. I have welded w-arms multiple times. When you ride smooth trails all the time, apparently nothing wears out. I have changed the front bushings in at least 10 Yamahas.
I am not saying the Delta box is junk but you have the bluest of blue glasses on this forum.
You love your Delta. Great, WE GET IT !!!! Can we talk about the future!!! ???
Care to mention the list of chassis problems on the Procross?? Mine doesn't seem to have any. Shock valving on some models, I"ll give you that.
Live in the now.

 

[STAIN]

I actually put the mono from my Apex into a 1990 Phazer and it works really well, rides and handles awesome. This skid works in a light chassis with little to no weight on the front end. It just did not work I the Apex.

That is interesting. I have never heard of anyone doing that. I didn't hate the monoshock, just didn't trust it to not break. The ZX2 was much better though.

 

[74Nitro]

Sasquatch, I am a Yamaha DIEHARD, but, there is no way the Apex performs like the Procross chassis. There are some points in the drivetrain that I think are superior in design and quality( chaincase ), and fit and finish, but that's about it.
What I see in the near future is Cat and Yamaha working together more than ever on new models and many think that is a bad thing. I don't.

 

[74Nitro]

Sasquatch, I am a Yamaha DIEHARD, but, there is no way the Apex performs like the Procross chassis. There are some points in the drivetrain that I think are superior in design and quality( chaincase ), and fit and finish, but that's about it.
What I see in the near future is Cat and Yamaha working together more than ever on new models and many think that is a bad thing. I don't.

In addition, the Apex chassis is based upon the RX-1 chassis that came out in 2003! The current SW chassis debuted in 2012. In all fairness, it should be superior, especially from a handling perspective.

 

[Sasquatch]

Squatch you can honestly say that your stock 2011 and newer Apex out performs the pro cross. If so please enlighten me where it performs better. Is it in the bumps, does it corner better, does it out preform the P.C. in the straightaways. How does your apex handle the bid G bumps. I guess you said it best everyone is alittle different but I would take the mustang anyday over a F350

Where did I say it out performs it? Yet I has seen some who can out ride one on an Apex. I'm not one of them, I like speed and crusing. My Apex XTX hits 112 gps on a trail with my fat arse all 6'5" and 300 plus pounds of it, stock, not on ice not modified for more power, stock. Hell it hit 103 in soft melting snow on a rotten groomed trail. So its has speed check box 1. It loves to cruise on the trails giving me 12,000 miles of smiles. So check box 2. Again not everyone is a snowcrosser. In fact snowcross is as far away from trail riding as you can get, but the question/statement was made why do people like the old POS Delta box and don't want to trade up to the Cat chassis? Its simple two different types of riders and as much as it puzzles the Cat riders people do like /love the delta box. Even if you call it junk or old or outdated or crap or any other way you run down the delta box or those who ride them.

I'll add It runs 3,500 on a belt and has almost imperceptible wear. I have a stack of belts that are like new that I gave away. They will probably will go another 3,500 miles. The bushings are tight in the front end and I have broken nothing in the front of rear. Donuts are tight and still sealed up. In 12,000 miles general maintenance, grease clean, change oil. Bearings are still good except for the ones I have changed in the skid. Chain is like new with almost no stretch, Bushings in the skid are not worn and are all grease able, hell the skid has a ton of grease nipples as does the front end. Lets be honest it was built to last! Is it perfect? Nope I put the star kit in to soften the rear skid cause it rode stiff. G outs are not an issue. I put Duponts on cause I did not want to put the larger wheels for many reasons. Only things I could maybe take issue with and hyfax is a wear item and the rear skid would take a pounding I just wanted a bit more cush. The skid worked perfectly the harder you rode it. Yep Cat skid is better and the Doo skid better yet. But that takes little away from the Apex! Is it such a shame to wish/want a better chassis then the Cat Chassis? Its as old as my Apex chassis (last refinement) and has way more issues.

F350 or a Mustang its about the choices right! I would though take a truck over a Mustang any day just not a F350.

 

[Sasquatch]

In addition, the Apex chassis is based upon the RX-1 chassis that came out in 2003! The current SW chassis debuted in 2012. In all fairness, it should be superior, especially from a handling perspective.

The Apex chassis is unlike the RX chassis in so many ways and unlike the 2012 Cat chassis was refined to the point just short of perfection, the Cat chassis has had no refinements other then a Yamaha Motor and some tabs welded on for plastic. I think the difference though is it handles better so everyone is willing to give the crap points a pass. They are willing to ride something that is inferior in quality while running down Yamaha because they build/built junk. Now that is irony. LOL! If only Yamaha was in charge and could refine the Cat to the Apexes quality and mechanical durability. Wouldn't that be something. Well not in 2020.

 

[Snorunner]

Put an M10 or M20 and some good skis in any of these chassis and they will kickass. Just saying my 2001 Cat with Mountain Cat bars and Boss high rise seat. Along with an M10 136. As well as C&A pro crossover skis. Is a blast to ride compared to my Vectors. I went the 4S route because of the reliability.

 

[Sasquatch]

Really? Really?
You must ride table top smooth trails then at slow speeds if you NEVER wear anything out or lift a ski!!!!
I owned a 2012 Apex eps. Needed front bushings at 1200 miles. Just had a Vector in the shop with 5k miles with NO bushings left in the left a-arms.
EVERY Delta box I have owned need bushings at @1500 miles. EVERY Delta box needed larger wheels to curb quick sled wear. I have welded w-arms multiple times. When you ride smooth trails all the time, apparently nothing wears out. I have changed the front bushings in at least 10 Yamahas.
I am not saying the Delta box is junk but you have the bluest of blue glasses on this forum.
You love your Delta. Great, WE GET IT !!!! Can we talk about the future!!! ???
Care to mention the list of chassis problems on the Procross?? Mine doesn't seem to have any. Shock valving on some models, I"ll give you that.
Live in the now.

Really Really! 1200 miles new bushings! Well your the first to say that. 12,000 miles bushing still have no play. The 10 Yamahas where all the 11 ups right. How many miles on your PC?

See it became a Delta Box is junk PC is perfect thing. The list of issues with the procross is on the forum. The list of issues with the delta box is on the forum but very little issues with the 11 up.

So lets talk about the future, why would a person who loves the Apex trade to a Cat chassis that needs to be refined to bring it up to Apex standards? It doesn't even have a drain plug.

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch, I am a Yamaha DIEHARD, but, there is no way the Apex performs like the Procross chassis. There are some points in the drivetrain that I think are superior in design and quality( chaincase ), and fit and finish, but that's about it.
What I see in the near future is Cat and Yamaha working together more than ever on new models and many think that is a bad thing. I don't.

I agree they need to work on improving the Cat Chassis and I never ever said the Apex performs like the Cat. Yes the Drive train from the secondary to the track including the brakes needs a lot of work, the oil tank as well. Unlike some who think that 2020 brings a new Yamaha sled I do not. I think Yamaha will continue to buy Cat chassis sleds and not much will change in design if anything at all. People buy them, have since 2012, why change anything?

I am puzzled as where Yamaha is going as the engines do belong to them but the chassis to Cat and Textron. All changes have to go through those company's and meet with their approval. This posses many problems, if Cat is happy with the chassis and it sells how can Yamaha change it even if it is not up to their standard?

 

[74Nitro]

S

The Apex chassis is unlike the RX chassis in so many ways and unlike the 2012 Cat chassis was refined to the point just short of perfection, the Cat chassis has had no refinements other then a Yamaha Motor and some tabs welded on for plastic. I think the difference though is it handles better so everyone is willing to give the crap points a pass. They are willing to ride something that is inferior in quality while running down Yamaha because they build/built junk. Now that is irony. LOL! If only Yamaha was in charge and could refine the Cat to the Apexes quality and mechanical durability. Wouldn't that be something. Well not in 2020.

Sasquatch, I admire your loyalty, but the Apex chassis is still the basic platform brought out in 2003. The bulkhead halves interchange. I know because I've changed them.
Having said that, I had become frustrated that Yamaha lollygagged along with the Apex instead of refining it further. I had ideas for it and here they are 1) If they had made it a little more rider forward, the steering linkage could have been changed a lot. Bring the steering post up between the 2 throttle bodies and eliminate all that linkage that created extra slop, weight and cost. 2) Get rid of those heavy spindles that also add cost and weight. Should have been changed many years ago. 3) Update that engine. The best move would have been scrapping that 5-valve head to the more modern and better 4-valve. The 5-valve is famous for a dip in power around 7-8000 RPM. wouldn't have needed EXUP which also added cost(and a drone). There is no reason that an updated one liter engine can't produce 170hp. 4) Higher seat.
Alas, it's not to be. I doubt Yamaha will ever build their own exclusive models again.

 

[whitedust1]

Here we are in January and little snow in the Midwest except the MN Arrowhead and the snowbelts of the UPMI. Yamaha inventory reduction should be in good shape and I wonder how much inventory the other OEMs have in dealer pipelines? Next 2 weeks look snowless in Northern Wi where I live so I sure wouldn’t buy a 2019 now with 2020s breaking loose in 6 weeks or less. I’m disappointed in the lack of snow and cold temps but no miles on my 2012 xtx this season but I would buy a new Apex xtx replacement if Yamaha finally releases a new 150 to 165 hp platform. The 2020 release gets closer with each passing winter day.

 

[STAIN]

Really Really! 1200 miles new bushings! Well your the first to say that. 12,000 miles bushing still have no play. The 10 Yamahas where all the 11 ups right. How many miles on your PC?

8000 miles on my viper ,2400 on my Sidewinder. All miles ridden by me.
The Procross HAS been updated and refined since 2012, you having not owned one or ridden for any period of time would not know or apparently care about that.
You are the one that started the Delta is king Procross is junk conversation, and you are in the vast minority.
I find it harder and harder to believe your posts.....

 

[Handy]

All this noise on here is because we are not riding because of no snow. Here in Manitoba we only have enough dust to Color the ground. I want snow. A Colorado Low would be much appreciated.

 

[TPAY243]

Squatch I'm with STAIN on his last post.