2022... disappointed!

[Phatboyc]

Have you ridden a 20 or newer Viper way better machine then when they were first introduced. Took them several years to get it figured out but they are really nice machine now. You might want try one Phatboyc better yet if you get the chance to run one side by side with your Vector give it a shot you might be surprised by the out come.

I was seriously considering it for the wife. She hated the '22 color. Can't get a wrap to hide that. EPS I could of convinced her. Ended up snochecking a 130hp doo for her. Way cheaper too.

 

[asrx600guy]

That's kinda funny that you only come on TY to ask Cat questions, on a another note its kinda sad to, sadly there are more out there like you that used to bleed blue that Yamaha lost to another brand, just wondering what Yamaha could do or offer to tempt you and others back so you would bleed blue again?

well, the obvious first step is to undo the reason I went to Doo in the first place, lack of Yamaha dealers. I was all set to get a Viper variant when I got my Skidoo without even considering Skidoo (like I said, I used to bleed blue), but all the Yamaha and Cat dealers were gone from the area. Since then, a Cat dealer has sort of returned (about the limit I would be willing to drive to get to a dealer) but no sign of Yamaha.
I ended up with a 2015 Epedition SE 1200. The biggest things I would change about that sled are a stiffer and higher seat, better gauge cluster, and hand-warmers that work all the time, and I think the G4 took care of all of those. Overall, it is a very good sled. I absolutely love the air-ride. The VKpro is outdated compared to a G4 Expedition and even compared to my XU Expedition. A VKproIII with a turbo might get me there if they make it comfortable, handle and stick a good suspension under it, but Yamaha considers wide track sleds to be pure utility and nothing else, so I really doubt it will happen. I've never sat a VK, but I also assume the ergonomics would be a bit cramped for me. A Venture GT I rode before placing my order was definitely more cramped than my Expy.
The Expedition is a real do everything sled. I stick it in low range for off trail, chasing the dog around the yard with 2-4 kids on the sled with me, and running the ditches to get between the yard and the trail. A wide track and a low range make for an entirely different off trail experience than you will get on other sleds. I am probably a true 50-50 rider, so off trail is important to me, and my off trail isn't pinning the throttle to make it up a hill. It is going through the woods a decent chunk of the time. The articulated rail makes it so reverse is an option off trail. On trail, it does great too. It handles like a 137 skid sled, even thought its a 154, thanks to those articulated rails. Coming from Yamaha, I don't mind the front end weight of the big 4 stroke, the gear box, the air compressor, and the radiator. I've got it set up pretty aggressively, I can see how someone with shoulder problems or just a bit weaker might like power steering on my sled, but I was not impressed with the power steering on the previously mentioned Venture GT. I might go with a 2 stroke for my next Expedition just to make it lighter up front for the little lady to drive. Power steering would also help with that, but I'm not sure I want to try that again.
ps. That Venture GT was borrowed from someone I converted over to Yamaha. He has also switched away from Yamaha as well since then. The numbers of former Yamaha faithful are definitely in decline from my experience.

 

[20/80]

well, the obvious first step is to undo the reason I went to Doo in the first place, lack of Yamaha dealers. I was all set to get a Viper variant when I got my Skidoo without even considering Skidoo (like I said, I used to bleed blue), but all the Yamaha and Cat dealers were gone from the area. Since then, a Cat dealer has sort of returned (about the limit I would be willing to drive to get to a dealer) but no sign of Yamaha.
I ended up with a 2015 Epedition SE 1200. The biggest things I would change about that sled are a stiffer and higher seat, better gauge cluster, and hand-warmers that work all the time, and I think the G4 took care of all of those. Overall, it is a very good sled. I absolutely love the air-ride. The VKpro is outdated compared to a G4 Expedition and even compared to my XU Expedition. A VKproIII with a turbo might get me there if they make it comfortable, handle and stick a good suspension under it, but Yamaha considers wide track sleds to be pure utility and nothing else, so I really doubt it will happen. I've never sat a VK, but I also assume the ergonomics would be a bit cramped for me. A Venture GT I rode before placing my order was definitely more cramped than my Expy.
The Expedition is a real do everything sled. I stick it in low range for off trail, chasing the dog around the yard with 2-4 kids on the sled with me, and running the ditches to get between the yard and the trail. A wide track and a low range make for an entirely different off trail experience than you will get on other sleds. I am probably a true 50-50 rider, so off trail is important to me, and my off trail isn't pinning the throttle to make it up a hill. It is going through the woods a decent chunk of the time. The articulated rail makes it so reverse is an option off trail. On trail, it does great too. It handles like a 137 skid sled, even thought its a 154, thanks to those articulated rails. Coming from Yamaha, I don't mind the front end weight of the big 4 stroke, the gear box, the air compressor, and the radiator. I've got it set up pretty aggressively, I can see how someone with shoulder problems or just a bit weaker might like power steering on my sled, but I was not impressed with the power steering on the previously mentioned Venture GT. I might go with a 2 stroke for my next Expedition just to make it lighter up front for the little lady to drive. Power steering would also help with that, but I'm not sure I want to try that again.
ps. That Venture GT was borrowed from someone I converted over to Yamaha. He has also switched away from Yamaha as well since then. The numbers of former Yamaha faithful are definitely in decline from my experience.

I think the new Doo expedition sport with the 900 NA ace is a great all around sled, comfort, off trail, on trail, 1.5 inch lug in a 16"x 154" track, utility for around the camp at the lake or home, fuel economy, two up riding if need be, 900 NA is not a big power house at 95hp but very respectable and no problem keeping up on the trails, I wish Yamaha offered this package, the 16 Vector xtx in the 1 3/4"x 146" track was close but not rider forward like the expedition sport, Yamaha has a 800 utility Cat in a 2 stroke but no 4 stroke like what the Expedition is offering, VK PRO is more utility focused.

 

[74Nitro]

Nope. Not mitsubishi electronics. We know what the 1050 engine can do. No where near as smooth on bottom and on top in the Viper vs Vector.

Not sure what the point of a Viper with 50cc less would be. Don't really care which electronics are on it at this point as the new ones seem to be running fine.

 

[STAIN]

I have ridden Vectors , but not newer ones

ps. That Venture GT was borrowed from someone I converted over to Yamaha. He has also switched away from Yamaha as well since then. The numbers of former Yamaha faithful are definitely in decline from my experience.

Industry growth was 18% last year, Yamaha was at 22%, so it seems that they are gaining. Maybe some of the old guard is gone but some new is coming in according to the numbers.

 

[mn-kelly]

Cat makes a very nice 600 and 800 and if you don't really like those choices there is always Poo and Doo Yamaha will never build another 2 stroke,,(witch is fine by me) so if ya don't like what they offer move on to what ever trips your trigger. The Viper is an excellent machine but will probably be discontinued after next year. Then everyone will bitch because they don't make it anymore. To much hp not enough hp really some of you guys are never happy. There is so many options out there if you don't like what one manufacturers is offering move on to something else why would you wait. Life is short and so is winter do what you have to do.

Do you really think they would discontinue the viper. That would be really sad. It is a awesome sled. I was thinking it was like the vector to what the apex was. A great sled for people who want a good sled but don’t need the large engine. Was hoping they would put power steering on it and I could get it for my wife.

 

[TPAY243]

It looks that way to me they only offer it in one model and it seems to me it's been put on the back burner. There is a lot of things they could add to it and improve it even more but I think with Cat dropping the 7000 it's probably gonna cost Yamaha to much money to change things around when it rolls down the assembly line. I hope they continue building them because they are a great sled but on the other hand you don't really see a lot of the newer ones on the trail. I think there being overlooked and no one's buying them. The only thing to hope for is they replaced the 1049 with a 998 minus the turbo and keep it around for a little while longer.

 

[74Nitro]

It looks that way to me they only offer it in one model and it seems to me it's been put on the back burner. There is a lot of things they could add to it and improve it even more but I think with Cat dropping the 7000 it's probably gonna cost Yamaha to much money to change things around when it rolls down the assembly line. I hope they continue building them because they are a great sled but on the other hand you don't really see a lot of the newer ones on the trail. I think there being overlooked and no one's buying them. The only thing to hope for is they replaced the 1049 with a 998 minus the turbo and keep it around for a little while longer.

Why do you think it would be more appealing with 8 less HP?

 

[1nc 2000]

Insurance is a lot less if it has less than 1000cc's.
My sidewinder Insurance premium is less than our Vector.

 

[TPAY243]

Why do you think it would be more appealing with 8 less HP?

Not appealing to me at all Nitro i hope they keep the 1049 it's a strong motor but I think just having the 998 in two different forms is probably gonna be cheaper for Yamaha than building two different motors. It's all about these manufacturers saving money on building them and then raise the price every year it's just crazy I never thought that in my life time that they would be selling snowmachines and atv's for $20.000.00 I would love to replace my Phazer with a newer Viper for my wife but she don't ride that much anymore and I really can't see having $35.000.00 tied up in snowmachines I was only able to put on 600 miles this year it's just a huge investment to make and then not be able to use it.

 

[sailor joe]

Not appealing to me at all Nitro i hope they keep the 1049 it's a strong motor but I think just having the 998 in two different forms is probably gonna be cheaper for Yamaha than building two different motors. It's all about these manufacturers saving money on building them and then raise the price every year it's just crazy I never thought that in my life time that they would be selling snowmachines and atv's for $20.000.00 I would love to replace my Phazer with a newer Viper for my wife but she don't ride that much anymore and I really can't see having $35.000.00 tied up in snowmachines I was only able to put on 600 miles this year it's just a huge investment to make and then not be able to use it.

I ride in Maine, it seems like 75% of the sleds out there are Ski Doo, always in large packs of course. Yamaha is going to put themselves out of business with the ever higher cost of a sled. They are the best sled but the cost is preventing sales in my opinion. It would be hard for me to put 19+k U.S.$ for another sled...it's not going to happen. What kills me is the drip drip drip of upgrades like the EPS on the 2up...EPS as been around a long time with Yamaha, they couldn't put it on the Sidewinder 2up a few years ago...give me a break.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I agree with TPAY that Yamaha is not in this sport to be #1.
They make money selling motors and KEEPING Yamaha guys.............................YAMAHA guys

I put time on other sleds this year.
Yamaha/Cat do NOT need a NEW chassis, but do NEED some upgrades.
FIRST, they must fix the KNOWN issues that have plagued every single guy i know that has some miles on it.
The rear skid is just not in the same league as the others.
I personally don't care for the exotic screen, but for A LOT of guys out there, it is a selling point.

Yamaha sales went up, but that is mostly because they had the only big power 4-stroke.
The new 900R will put a dent in that.
Polaris has a 4-stroke, but it's just not ready & will take some time before they start grabbing some market.

The POO front end is absolutely AMAZING!
The DOO rear end is absolutely AMAZING!
The Yamaha 998T is absolutely AMAZING!

IF i had money & was retired...................what a project that would be!

 

[stevewithOCD]

OK here it is.
I put 5300 miles on my "back up" 600R.
The last ride i blew the bearing behind secondary.
So they ALL can break.
I did some research & this is usually a 10,000 mile bearing & NOT a common problem, but if there is an issue, I WILL FIND IT!!!
I put 4200 miles on this year which is amazing considering how horrible the snow was.

I also rode the new POO for awhile.
When we brought the sled back, my bud traded in his RTX for an 850 THAT day.

I rode another Winder and still love the ergos and POWER.
I also rode my old Apex and i have to admit, i miss a lot about that also.

I have $15,000 to spend this year...................decisions, decisions, decisions

 

[74Nitro]

OK here it is.
I put 5300 miles on my "back up" 600R.
The last ride i blew the bearing behind secondary.
So they ALL can break.
I did some research & this is usually a 10,000 mile bearing & NOT a common problem, but if there is an issue, I WILL FIND IT!!!
I put 4200 miles on this year which is amazing considering how horrible the snow was.

I also rode the new POO for awhile.
When we brought the sled back, my bud traded in his RTX for an 850 THAT day.

I rode another Winder and still love the ergos and POWER.
I also rode my old Apex and i have to admit, i miss a lot about that also.

I have $15,000 to spend this year...................decisions, decisions, decisions

Funny you mention that bearing. I was talking to a Doo bud yesterday and his failed at 6000kms. The dealer fixed it same day but must have beat it on with a hammer as it failed the next day again, damaging the clutches in the process.

 

[74Nitro]

They probably go down the same assembly line so cost differences would be peanuts. The savings would be avoiding the 15% tariff and the customer would save a bit on insurance rates.
However, I think it would hurt sales to have the Viper come out with less power than it has now The Viper falls into no-mans land already.
IMO, if Yamaha wanted to boost Viper sales it needs an increase in displacement up to 1150-1200cc. Then it could be nipping at the heels of 800-850 sleds.