As everyone can see I wasn't suggesting some type of twist wasn't needed. If your sucking the belt and bogging off the line you need to increase the twist until it stops doing that. Side pressure is what squeezes the belt. THe torsional twist controls how slow or quickly the secondary opens and closes.
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WOW- Did I miss alot by working in the garage last night.
W.I.R. has a real bad starting line for hookup. I can say, it is because of the gravel pits, that the cars bring out to the starting line.
If I have a higher %age on the spring, it will shock the track, and cause me to spin. If I lower the %age, it slips the secondary, and gets better hookup. I need to have the secondary soft, and the engagement extremely low! Otherwise, it will be like dumping a clutch on a bike, while on a wet road. The ice is totally different, and you want a higher engagement to stick the pics in the ice.
I am open to ALL advice, and have been trying many things from members. That is why I started this back in 2003. You guys are GREAT! Keep the stuff coming.
EVERYONE
Tomorrow, Friday 6/3/05 at W.I.R., they have the Real Street Drags, and they spray the track pretty well. Hope Jeff and Ryan can make it. Mr Sled will be there, taking mine for a nitrous rip down the 1/4.
W.I.R. has a real bad starting line for hookup. I can say, it is because of the gravel pits, that the cars bring out to the starting line.
If I have a higher %age on the spring, it will shock the track, and cause me to spin. If I lower the %age, it slips the secondary, and gets better hookup. I need to have the secondary soft, and the engagement extremely low! Otherwise, it will be like dumping a clutch on a bike, while on a wet road. The ice is totally different, and you want a higher engagement to stick the pics in the ice.
I am open to ALL advice, and have been trying many things from members. That is why I started this back in 2003. You guys are GREAT! Keep the stuff coming.
EVERYONE
Tomorrow, Friday 6/3/05 at W.I.R., they have the Real Street Drags, and they spray the track pretty well. Hope Jeff and Ryan can make it. Mr Sled will be there, taking mine for a nitrous rip down the 1/4.
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Mrsled's gonna drive? I predict a 13.xx run with his fat @$$ on the seat! LOL! 
I will also be out tomorrow for the first pass on the sled this year on the tar. (Having a kid will delay you season...) I'll post some times and pic's when i get back from the track...
Terry, as long as you are taking info/advice... Have you tried changing your belt deflection with out changing the spring tension. If you don't lock your secondary, and from what i remember you do not have a belt deflection dial. And, you want to keep your secondary spring setting the same, try taking the washers out from the back of the secondary and put the bolts (8mm) back in. This will allow the belt to sit a little lower and help with the 'spinning' issues... (just a suggestion, because this is what I do when I have a slick track, it's easy and quick)
Good Luck,
--Buster696--
Terry, as long as you are taking info/advice... Have you tried changing your belt deflection with out changing the spring tension. If you don't lock your secondary, and from what i remember you do not have a belt deflection dial. And, you want to keep your secondary spring setting the same, try taking the washers out from the back of the secondary and put the bolts (8mm) back in. This will allow the belt to sit a little lower and help with the 'spinning' issues... (just a suggestion, because this is what I do when I have a slick track, it's easy and quick)
Good Luck,
--Buster696--
Buster696 said:
That was excellent advice!!!!
monker
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Mike- I'm hoping to make it out tomorrow evenig as well at nyirp. My first time out too.
I agree with the washers on the secondary. It's not much of an adjustment, but may be enough. It's good advice and is in my list of tips and tricks.
I agree with the washers on the secondary. It's not much of an adjustment, but may be enough. It's good advice and is in my list of tips and tricks.
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Hey Mike, I have tried that, and it made it worse. I put .030 washers in it, plus the original washers, and it would creep at the line, and heat up the clutches, and squeal like a pig. I put in .015 washers, plus the original washers, and it gave me more mile an hour, but would spin at the line. I went back to the original washer setup, but will try going smaller than stock for once..........I have not tried that. I will probably loose top end tho...........right?
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Ryan - Is Jeff gonna come for sure?
Would be nice to see a bunch of Yamahas there, instead of all the doo's.
Ryan, you are coming? I was thinking about parking closer to the staging lanes, for a power pole. I will give you a call tonight.
Allen - I told Tom, and Matty to take it down the track. I promised this to them in 2003 when I joined TY.
Tom - Nitrous bottles are full!
Would be nice to see a bunch of Yamahas there, instead of all the doo's.
Ryan, you are coming? I was thinking about parking closer to the staging lanes, for a power pole. I will give you a call tonight.
Allen - I told Tom, and Matty to take it down the track. I promised this to them in 2003 when I joined TY.
Tom - Nitrous bottles are full!
Nos, You took the washers out only and put the 8mm bolt back in? It will open up the secondary, and help with not 'shocking the track'...
If you do not put the bolts back in the sled will creep, like you said...
I use this method to dial in the secondary when there is a loose conditon in the grass, and also on the tar.
--Buster696--
If you do not put the bolts back in the sled will creep, like you said...
I use this method to dial in the secondary when there is a loose conditon in the grass, and also on the tar.
--Buster696--
NOS-PRO: It sounds like you raised the belt up in the clutches if it was "squeal like a pig". Mike is telling you to drop the belt in the secondary. Which puts it in a higher gear.
What you need to do is pull the bolts right out of the clutch. Get a dial adjuster and set the deflection by hand. If your traction is poor all you have to do is lower the belt into the secondary "putting in a higher gear" and then it won't be bale to break the track loose. The better the traction the higher you want the belt in the clutches becuase your gettign a lower gear to start.
That's why the larger diameter secondarys are cool. You can get a lower gear with out having to get real crazy in the chain case. Best of both worlds.
What you need to do is pull the bolts right out of the clutch. Get a dial adjuster and set the deflection by hand. If your traction is poor all you have to do is lower the belt into the secondary "putting in a higher gear" and then it won't be bale to break the track loose. The better the traction the higher you want the belt in the clutches becuase your gettign a lower gear to start.
That's why the larger diameter secondarys are cool. You can get a lower gear with out having to get real crazy in the chain case. Best of both worlds.
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Great discussion going on here folks! 
There is more to loose belt deflection than "putting the secondary in a higher starting gear". When you have an improper amount of deflection it actually causes the clutches to act like they are overshifting. Generally you will see this on the tach as it will pull the rpm down slightly and then begin to climb again.
If you were to put a video camera under the hood to watch the clutches you would actually see them shift for a split second upon launch, then stop shifting for a split second because the clutches are playing "catch up", and then the clutches will begin to move again. It will actually act the same as it would if you had too much initial angle on the helix shifting the clutch too fast causing an overshift.
What I would do. If it were me I would set it up so my belt deflection and secondary tension are always left the same and do the adjusting in the primary clutch. Since you are using adjustable weights it is really quite simple. If the track is slippery for that particular day, simply start removing weight from the "heel" location (closest to the pin location). You're running the heavy hitter weights so I would start removing some of the weight by adjusting with different length allen head screws in the heel. This is a simple change in between rounds and easily accessible with the clutch still on the sled. Let the sled over rev slightly on the launch and have it slowly pull down to the operating rpm you want as you go down the track. By doing this in the primary you reduce the risk of overshifting the secondary clutch because you ran a lower percentage of twist on the spring or loose belt deflection. The slightest adjustment of even a 1/2 gram will be noticable.
I've attached some graphs. You'll notice on the graph with improper belt deflection the clutches actually stop shifting for a split second. The two graphs with belt deflection written on them are the exact same setups, one just with loose belt deflection and the other with the proper amount of deflection.
There is more to loose belt deflection than "putting the secondary in a higher starting gear". When you have an improper amount of deflection it actually causes the clutches to act like they are overshifting. Generally you will see this on the tach as it will pull the rpm down slightly and then begin to climb again.
If you were to put a video camera under the hood to watch the clutches you would actually see them shift for a split second upon launch, then stop shifting for a split second because the clutches are playing "catch up", and then the clutches will begin to move again. It will actually act the same as it would if you had too much initial angle on the helix shifting the clutch too fast causing an overshift.
What I would do. If it were me I would set it up so my belt deflection and secondary tension are always left the same and do the adjusting in the primary clutch. Since you are using adjustable weights it is really quite simple. If the track is slippery for that particular day, simply start removing weight from the "heel" location (closest to the pin location). You're running the heavy hitter weights so I would start removing some of the weight by adjusting with different length allen head screws in the heel. This is a simple change in between rounds and easily accessible with the clutch still on the sled. Let the sled over rev slightly on the launch and have it slowly pull down to the operating rpm you want as you go down the track. By doing this in the primary you reduce the risk of overshifting the secondary clutch because you ran a lower percentage of twist on the spring or loose belt deflection. The slightest adjustment of even a 1/2 gram will be noticable.
I've attached some graphs. You'll notice on the graph with improper belt deflection the clutches actually stop shifting for a split second. The two graphs with belt deflection written on them are the exact same setups, one just with loose belt deflection and the other with the proper amount of deflection.
Attachments
Good suggestion as well.
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Mike, just left you a v-mail call me and let me know what time we are leaving. I have all the video gear charged. Doug
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Allen, nice post. But, you might have given away the edge 
Doug
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I will try some of these tonight.
Hope jeff can make it up, and bring some more Yamahas out on the track.
Hope jeff can make it up, and bring some more Yamahas out on the track.
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