Best Helix

[@123]

Guys, the 33/35 helix will give you better holeshot and corner to corner grunt. The 35/39 will give you give you more top speed and pull on mid to top end.

you should post a drag race to compare 33/35 vs 35/39 that be nice!!!!!

 

[Never Satisfied]

It will depend on traction. The steeper helix will shift faster but if you spin a bunch it will over shift. Lower angles backshift better and grip the belt better. The steeper you go the more spring you need.

 

[Doowithblue]

Stk helix with orange gonna be pretty tough to beat imo

 

[WinterWolf]

Stk helix with orange gonna be pretty tough to beat imo

If one uses the orange spring from Thunder Products, or the Black/orange from Dalton, and uses a 33/35 Helix that Dalton makes...instead of the stock 35 Helix, this in theory should be even a tad better (better bottom and mid range...while the finish angle is same as stock Helix at 35, so your top end remains the same).

 

[KnappAttack]

I've watched this thread for quite some time and figured its about time to say something.

There is no "magic" or "best helix" to pick from. Varying snow conditions, tracks, ECU tunes and stud setups will require a different helix to perform at its best. I would change them based on the traction and weather conditions for each pass based on test passes and actual runs down the track while datalogging. Sometimes on a good track you'd need more clutch weight and less helix, sometimes on less than stellar conditions you'd need less weight and more helix.

Generally speaking, greater clutch efficiency is had by feeding it more helix and less driven spring until you get to the point of slippage. Its all traction and power dependent. What works for one sled will not be the best for another sled. Way to big of variable in tunes even in these Winders!

There is no way to pick a "best" helix for your machine based on others findings, as their setups, tunes and machine is different along with different requirements. One guy may want to be the first one at the stripe. Another one wants top speed, Dan wants throttle response and engine braking. It's all going to require something different it you want it maximized for your requirements.

Asphalt, ice, grass and snow, even though its all drag racing, require very different setups to be fast. See where I'm going with this?

You can't "have it all and a bag of chips", especially with your "hot trail sled" that needs to run the gamut of conditions we run in. All you can do is pick a helix that suits your tune and needs. Don't go by what one guy here or there is using or pushing. That does not mean its going to be the best for your tune or needs.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I've watched this thread for quite some time and figured its about time to say something.

There is no "magic" or "best helix" to pick from. Varying snow conditions, tracks, ECU tunes and stud setups will require a different helix to perform at its best. I would change them based on the traction and weather conditions for each pass based on test passes and actual runs down the track while datalogging. Sometimes on a good track you'd need more clutch weight and less helix, sometimes on less than stellar conditions you'd need less weight and more helix.

Generally speaking, greater clutch efficiency is had by feeding it more helix and less driven spring until you get to the point of slippage. Its all traction and power dependent. What works for one sled will not be the best for another sled. Way to big of variable in tunes even in these Winders!

There is no way to pick a "best" helix for your machine based on others findings, as their setups, tunes and machine is different along with different requirements. One guy may want to be the first one at the stripe. Another one wants top speed, Dan wants throttle response and engine braking. It's all going to require something different it you want it maximized for your requirements.

Asphalt, ice, grass and snow, even though its all drag racing, require very different setups to be fast. See where I'm going with this?

You can't "have it all and a bag of chips", especially with your "hot trail sled" that needs to run the gamut of conditions we run in. All you can do is pick a helix that suits your tune and needs. Don't go by what one guy here or there is using or pushing. That does not mean its going to be the best for your tune or needs.

Nice to have you back on our side Mike...

 

[**sj**]

I've watched this thread for quite some time and figured its about time to say something.

There is no "magic" or "best helix" to pick from. Varying snow conditions, tracks, ECU tunes and stud setups will require a different helix to perform at its best. I would change them based on the traction and weather conditions for each pass based on test passes and actual runs down the track while datalogging. Sometimes on a good track you'd need more clutch weight and less helix, sometimes on less than stellar conditions you'd need less weight and more helix.

Generally speaking, greater clutch efficiency is had by feeding it more helix and less driven spring until you get to the point of slippage. Its all traction and power dependent. What works for one sled will not be the best for another sled. Way to big of variable in tunes even in these Winders!

There is no way to pick a "best" helix for your machine based on others findings, as their setups, tunes and machine is different along with different requirements. One guy may want to be the first one at the stripe. Another one wants top speed, Dan wants throttle response and engine braking. It's all going to require something different it you want it maximized for your requirements.

Asphalt, ice, grass and snow, even though its all drag racing, require very different setups to be fast. See where I'm going with this?

You can't "have it all and a bag of chips", especially with your "hot trail sled" that needs to run the gamut of conditions we run in. All you can do is pick a helix that suits your tune and needs. Don't go by what one guy here or there is using or pushing. That does not mean its going to be the best for your tune or needs.

Perfectly said....

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I've watched this thread for quite some time and figured its about time to say something.

There is no "magic" or "best helix" to pick from. Varying snow conditions, tracks, ECU tunes and stud setups will require a different helix to perform at its best. I would change them based on the traction and weather conditions for each pass based on test passes and actual runs down the track while datalogging. Sometimes on a good track you'd need more clutch weight and less helix, sometimes on less than stellar conditions you'd need less weight and more helix.

Generally speaking, greater clutch efficiency is had by feeding it more helix and less driven spring until you get to the point of slippage. Its all traction and power dependent. What works for one sled will not be the best for another sled. Way to big of variable in tunes even in these Winders!

There is no way to pick a "best" helix for your machine based on others findings, as their setups, tunes and machine is different along with different requirements. One guy may want to be the first one at the stripe. Another one wants top speed, Dan wants throttle response and engine braking. It's all going to require something different it you want it maximized for your requirements.

Asphalt, ice, grass and snow, even though its all drag racing, require very different setups to be fast. See where I'm going with this?

You can't "have it all and a bag of chips", especially with your "hot trail sled" that needs to run the gamut of conditions we run in. All you can do is pick a helix that suits your tune and needs. Don't go by what one guy here or there is using or pushing. That does not mean its going to be the best for your tune or needs.

Well said Mike.....Ive tried other "best setups" and always had to tweak them.

Its all about testing and getting your sled to work well, each rider and sled varies to some degree.

Dan

 

[NOS-PRO]

33/39 might be a good one

In perfect conditions....you would think yes. But I think the larger the span of angles, the more tricky it is to clutch. Closest to straight angle is best, but the turbo sleds work good with a reverse angle helix where the boost builds quicker.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Just a note on Dalton BLue Primary.....

The rates were slightly different last season, I know cause I had to update all my notes when I noticed the change on Dales site a couple weeks back.

I'm assuming the springs are unchanged, just was a update to the rates on site.

53/133kg is correct now....and the spring I aim to start my testing with.

Dan

My Notes below:

 

[helix]

Just a note on Dalton BLue Primary.....

The rates were slightly different last season, I know cause I had to update all my notes when I noticed the change on Dales site a couple weeks back.

I'm assuming the springs are unchanged, just was a update to the rates on site.

53/133kg is correct now....and the spring I aim to start my testing with.

Dan

My Notes below:

View attachment 133562

Hi Dan, you are correct, now and then batch lots of production springs will vary and we may update the site, however Black/Blue has always been the same. The black/ Green was adjusted slightly for a different batch at one point.
I just happened in and noticed your post. I came here actually to post a new updated list of primary springs, since we have a couple new ones as of today.

Some new springs were developed based on demand from people testing ...many have claimed to have found that lower engagement springs were only making more lag and wanted stock like engagement....but a replacement for the stock primary spring. The stock primary spring has had a few issues. It is long, but it is not simply the fact that it is long, it is long "with a lot of coils of very small wire" and as some noticed, distorts quite a bit at full compression. Not to mention fairly tight and sometimes rough spring pockets.
We now offer a stock like engagement spring, as well as a new even higher rpm engagement spring for racer types that requested it.

Up to this point, it seems the most popular ones for sidewinder are Black/Red, Black/Blue, Black/Green, ..with black green most popular. We have now expanded that and time will tell of course.

Here is the updated list with more new options.

http://www.daltonindustries.com/product_detail.php?product_id=72

 

[helix]

As to this particular topic " what helix is best"?

...I thank Mike Knapp for clarifying that for people who haven't been around long enough to know those facts.

Having input from this site is a valuable resource for many, thats for sure. It is ,however, good to have all the facts to consider for something like a helix, and to know that one size will never fit all (Have a good look at our helix list).
If you get input for a good choice on a tuning component like a helix, it would be great info as long as all of the following are the same with the one recommending it:

1) boost/hp level
2) gearing ( effect rate of shift)
3) sled model/track length, etc
4) studs/traction
5) same set up in the primary clutch including flyweights, their adjusted set up, and the primary spring...it is all the opposing force to the secondary clutch
6) spring chosen and torsion setting in secondary
7) conditions ran most of the time of the user suggesting it

....if yours is not the same as above, "what helix they are running" ..may not be relevant


...and if it was, ...why would we be selling a lot of the helix YSR 33/37, ...and also a lot of YSR 37/33 ????? These are both popular models we ship multiple times per week.

Hope it helps
Dale

 

[@123]

Hi Dan, you are correct, now and then batch lots of production springs will vary and we may update the site, however Black/Blue has always been the same. The black/ Green was adjusted slightly for a different batch at one point.
I just happened in and noticed your post. I came here actually to post a new updated list of primary springs, since we have a couple new ones as of today.

Some new springs were developed based on demand from people testing ...many have claimed to have found that lower engagement springs were only making more lag and wanted stock like engagement....but a replacement for the stock primary spring. The stock primary spring has had a few issues. It is long, but it is not simply the fact that it is long, it is long "with a lot of coils of very small wire" and as some noticed, distorts quite a bit at full compression. Not to mention fairly tight and sometimes rough spring pockets.
We now offer a stock like engagement spring, as well as a new even higher rpm engagement spring for racer types that requested it.

Up to this point, it seems the most popular ones for sidewinder are Black/Red, Black/Blue, Black/Green, ..with black green most popular. We have now expanded that and time will tell of course.

Here is the updated list with more new options.

http://www.daltonindustries.com/product_detail.php?product_id=72

i a bought a black green spring 2 month ago is it the same rate? at the time it was 57-129?

 

[helix]

i a bought a black green spring 2 month ago is it the same rate? at the time it was 57-129?

no, it would be 62/131.
We just noticed that our retail site still had the older rates from a batch a long time ago.

 

[DMCTurbo]

What rpm is the black/green engaging at approx.? I know different weights have effect on engagement as well, is it much more than stock?