Blown Belt

[jonlafon1]

No bind on mine took apart at 500 miles to replace flat rollers couldn't find a spot on the spring where the paint has rubbed. Wrapped at 3-3

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That's great to hear, And this is what makes things very confusing.. Guy like yourself without bind the next two guys have it!! inconsistent from one sled to another

 

[snowbeast]

have washer behind secondary, blown belt at 280 miles and 2 rollers with flat spots....

Are you guys all referring to the shim that slides over the jackshaft for offset?

 

[kylechargerrt]

That's great to hear, And this is what makes things very confusing.. Guy like yourself without bind the next two guys have it!! inconsistent from one sled to another

Yah it's weird. Was gonna wind it tighter but will stay where I am at for now.

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[jonlafon1]

Yah it's weird. Was gonna wind it tighter but will stay where I am at for now.

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Hell yes stay where your at!.. No doubt man

 

[jonlafon1]

Are you guys all referring to the shim that slides over the jackshaft for offset?

YES behind secondary

 

[snowbeast]

so how do we address the sec spring binding issue?

well,allen ulmer is working on a cat secondary spring that may help,give him a call.

 

[snowbeast]

YES behind secondary

Thanks mine had one,and now no shaft,its out as well as driveshaft,and cases,and oil tank,well heck most of its trashed parts..lol

 

[stevewithOCD]

Good to see you in good spirits! I rode Jo-Mary & Kakadjo. Forgot to check speedo on big stretches. There was plenty left. I was watching rpm's mostly. I may bring GPS next time out. I was happy to see no belt dust, marks or even belt wear. I went by my old Ape like it was dragging an anchor & that is one of the fastest Apes around. I beat the pee pee out of my "purple rage'' for 450 miles. My nickname is throttle so i'm not easy on it...next trip i'll know if i have a BB(belt blower) or a GEM...

Steve,109 was allyou got out of it so far? That's not WO in the county lol hell that almost what I hit my tree in back yard at he he,oh I got the results of my leg damage tonight torn ACL torn MCL and broke knee cap,she said she has never seen anyone with such a poor MRI reading to walk standing up,in her office and be able to squat down and have my legs look this good,i said,they were soft trees lol oh I ment my head was soft,for not getting insurance,i also stated,i went on a snowmobile ride last week on my boys same sled I crashed,now I only did 80 miles and only took it to 80,but it was 5pm and plenty dark lol..

 

[Fleecer]

That's great to hear, And this is what makes things very confusing.. Guy like yourself without bind the next two guys have it!! inconsistent from one sled to another

Gents, I think it's awesome the amount of feedback on this post and the sharing of ideas in hopes of remedying this issue. As posted, I blew belt last week end and I've been reading here daily in hopes of developing a path forward.

The topic of spring coil bind has surfaced several times and I would like to comment if I may, and look forward to any rebuttals and additional ideas.

We have had a foot of snow every week for the last 4-5 weeks, so it has been diffIcult testing on good surfaces conducive to high speeds.

Two weeks ago, we had a few days of cold without snow and trails had a chance to setup for a change. Groomed trail/rr bed while riding 85-90 mph, stabbing the throttle 5-7 seconds would bring the winder into the 120's. I did this at least half dozen times, and although not trying to break records did see 123mph once.

After that days ride I completed 500 mile service at 501 miles, cleaned/inspected clutches, no black marks, no signs of slip, and the belt still looked new.

Fast forward to last weekend. We got 1 foot of snow Friday, groomers passed, but only with the back pan touching to pack trails. Saturday afternoon, rr bed soft and fairly hard pulling. I cruised 90-100 mph for probably 12-13 miles, held it wot for about half a mile and only saw 113mph. Rounded a corner 100mph, whacked it again and Kapow!!! At 520 miles, 19 miles after verifying everything was good, blew belt.

I think my experiences may differ to many here as I believe I have a heat issue. Here are my thoughts: I ran multiple times in 120's previous weekend, therefore running at a topspeed of 113mph in soft snow doesnt lead me to believe I have a coil binding issue. However, I'm open to any thoughts/comments.

I think in my instance, the laboring through soft snow generated too much heat and caused belt to fail. In checking the sled over, i think yama cat engineered a nice intake scoop feeding air to the clutches, but then plugged it with a huge airfilter. Perhaps putting smaller filter and opening this up may help.

Also, I wonder if the viper guys who added turbos had good luck with 8jp? Rather than read 1000 posts, can anyone comment? If a 190hp viper couldn't run a 8jp, we may be foolish to think a tuned winder will.

Lastly, having owned a 1100 cat turbo, I can tell you it was a combination of many small things that remedied the situation. At the end of the day I think the biggest culprit on my cat was heat. Installing finned rear clutch, intake air ducts helped a lot. The turbo produced a lot of heat creating an oven environment for the clutches, which exacerbated the situation.

When I traded my cat I had to take a savage beating. Yamaha dealer told me cats have a reputation for blowing belts....hence the low trade in price. My cat went 1472 miles on its first belt, my winder went 520. Hmmm, looks like when I trade this one I will have to take another bath.......wonderous, I love snowmobiling!!!

 

[jonlafon1]

Well my belt blew at 43 miles. And guess what it was very similar in that I was on the throttle hard let up for bit and whacked it again and bang. Not maybe at the speed you blew yours but VERY similar throttle actions. This was a 8dn carbon belt. Hard pack snow I was on. And I have frog skin venting in front of my clutch

 

[Turbo Dynamics]

Gents, I think it's awesome the amount of feedback on this post and the sharing of ideas in hopes of remedying this issue. As posted, I blew belt last week end and I've been reading here daily in hopes of developing a path forward.

The topic of spring coil bind has surfaced several times and I would like to comment if I may, and look forward to any rebuttals and additional ideas.

We have had a foot of snow every week for the last 4-5 weeks, so it has been diffIcult testing on good surfaces conducive to high speeds.

Two weeks ago, we had a few days of cold without snow and trails had a chance to setup for a change. Groomed trail/rr bed while riding 85-90 mph, stabbing the throttle 5-7 seconds would bring the winder into the 120's. I did this at least half dozen times, and although not trying to break records did see 123mph once.

After that days ride I completed 500 mile service at 501 miles, cleaned/inspected clutches, no black marks, no signs of slip, and the belt still looked new.

Fast forward to last weekend. We got 1 foot of snow Friday, groomers passed, but only with the back pan touching to pack trails. Saturday afternoon, rr bed soft and fairly hard pulling. I cruised 90-100 mph for probably 12-13 miles, held it wot for about half a mile and only saw 113mph. Rounded a corner 100mph, whacked it again and Kapow!!! At 520 miles, 19 miles after verifying everything was good, blew belt.

I think my experiences may differ to many here as I believe I have a heat issue. Here are my thoughts: I ran multiple times in 120's previous weekend, therefore running at a topspeed of 113mph in soft snow doesnt lead me to believe I have a coil binding issue. However, I'm open to any thoughts/comments.

I think in my instance, the laboring through soft snow generated too much heat and caused belt to fail. In checking the sled over, i think yama cat engineered a nice intake scoop feeding air to the clutches, but then plugged it with a huge airfilter. Perhaps putting smaller filter and opening this up may help.

Also, I wonder if the viper guys who added turbos had good luck with 8jp? Rather than read 1000 posts, can anyone comment? If a 190hp viper couldn't run a 8jp, we may be foolish to think a tuned winder will.

Lastly, having owned a 1100 cat turbo, I can tell you it was a combination of many small things that remedied the situation. At the end of the day I think the biggest culprit on my cat was heat. Installing finned rear clutch, intake air ducts helped a lot. The turbo produced a lot of heat creating an oven environment for the clutches, which exacerbated the situation.

When I traded my cat I had to take a savage beating. Yamaha dealer told me cats have a reputation for blowing belts....hence the low trade in price. My cat went 1472 miles on its first belt, my winder went 520. Hmmm, looks like when I trade this one I will have to take another bath.......wonderous, I love snowmobiling!!!

We have incredible clutching solutions o the 1100 turbo cat. Heat is the the ennemy but heat is byproduct of slipping/friction. What worked on the cat was a motor alignment with osp bar, engine snubber mount and full floating conversion and machining the secondary and using the right belt wuth the right helix and spring combo. I have many customers running 270 to 300hp on the trail with over 2500 miles per belt. Guys went from 150 to 300 miles to 1500 to 2500 Miles.

We just need to find what works on the yamaha setup but i wouldn't be surprised it involves secondary shifting/binding fix and custom secondary machining. Some of my dealers are already making changes and are having great luck.

I will share this tomorrow in more details.

 

[silverram323]

We have incredible clutching solutions o the 1100 turbo cat. Heat is the the ennemy but heat is byproduct of slipping/friction. What worked on the cat was a motor alignment with osp bar, engine snubber mount and full floating conversion and machining the secondary and using the right belt wuth the right helix and spring combo. I have many customers running 270 to 300hp on the trail with over 2500 miles per belt. Guys went from 150 to 300 miles to 1500 to 2500 Miles.

We just need to find what works on the yamaha setup but i wouldn't be surprised it involves secondary shifting/binding fix and custom secondary machining. Some of my dealers are already making changes and are having great luck.

I will share this tomorrow in more details.

Now thats what we want to hear.

Thanks, we look forward to hearing about the details.


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[stevewithOCD]

That's what i'm talking about! Now i'll be on this site 8 times a day instead of 6. Good thing Mr.Sled doesn't charge me per visit!

 

[NOS-PRO]

We just need to find what works on the Yamaha setup, but i wouldn't be surprised it involves secondary shifting/binding fix and custom secondary machining. Some of my dealers are already making changes and are having great luck.

I will share this tomorrow in more details.

Glad to hear that we are hearing more and more about great luck with the SW after secondary mods.

I stumbled onto the secondary spring binding on my Viper in 2014, when 3 members on a TY ride came to me with broken secondary springs. That day will always be vivid in my memory because it changed the Vipers top speed, belt dust and made me really think about the Yamaha secondary how it works. When my SW belt blew at 8 miles, I started checking things out..."Yup, same crap" then a couple members here got a hold of me and to ensure that these issues are the culprit of breaking belts, loss of top speed and belt dust...I machined a few clutches for a few members here now with great results.
Did these as a favor and didn't charge for these to be machined....just so people know I am not in business to make money off of this, I just want to help people get their Yamaha's running the way they should.

 

[SEVS11]

Glad to hear that we are hearing more and more about great luck with the SW after secondary mods.

I stumbled onto the secondary spring binding on my Viper in 2014, when 3 members on a TY ride came to me with broken secondary springs. That day will always be vivid in my memory because it changed the Vipers top speed, belt dust and made me really think about the Yamaha secondary how it works. When my SW belt blew at 8 miles, I started checking things out..."Yup, same crap" then a couple members here got a hold of me and to ensure that these issues are the culprit of breaking belts, loss of top speed and belt dust...I machined a few clutches for a few members here now with great results.
Did these as a favor and didn't charge for these to be machined....just so people know I am not in business to make money off of this, I just want to help people get their Yamaha's running the way they should.

Hat's off to NOS-PRO for taking his time/knowledge and sharing with others without holding back so we can all have fun. Guys like him are priceless to this site.