BoostedApexWinder

[farmerz24]

MY build of a Apex 4cyl into a sidewinder.: Will probably run the gen2 gt2876 turbo.

Chaincase mount notches

Clutch alignment once bolted to the back factory mount (only need to cut off the outside tab on the rear mount closest to chaincase, use a shortened apex rear bolt as the sidewinder one wont be long enough)
for the front, simply weld new ears onto the existing mount. use a washer on each side as a spacer between the ears to allow fine tooning adjustments to clutch alignment.

 

[RobX-1]

Interesting...will be following your build.

 

[farmerz24]

Running into some wiring issues. I decided to test the harness on the bench. I also have a power commander hooked inline with the stock wiring. When i turn the key, I can see the gauge light up and a relay click, but I do not get power to my power commander. (normally the power light will come on for a few seconds while the relay energizes, then again once cranking. However it does not power up). THis leads me to the starter solinoid.

It is a 3 wire solinoid, 1 wire has 12v when key is on, the other wire is grounded upon cranking (I can hear the solinoid click when "cranking" the key.) Is the 3rd wire mean to feed power to the ignition through the 30A fuse? I dont get any power here. strange enough, if I run a 12v jumper wire to this terminal then when i cycle the key the power commander will light up. Does anyone know why I am not getting power here or what I am doing wrong? I have the harness grounded to the battery at the main ground and power is being fed into the harness from the main power connector.

I also plan to swap to the sidewinder 2 wire start solinoid so that it can remain at the back of the sidewinder and save me more space upfront. I also swapped to a second apex solinoid and it had the same issue so I am not sure what is going on here. I also have a second apex harness, same issue. The apex motor was just in a running sled so im sure its something i have not done properly? Any advice appreciated here.

Thanks

 

[kinger]

Do you get any errors on the display when this occurs? I am wondering if it needs to see the crank or cam signal before it will fire the solenoid.

 

[farmerz24]

No I am not getting any codes on the display.

3d Printing a carbon fibre nylon plenum:

 

[MrSled]

Very cool build.

 

[farmerz24]

Due to the steering shaft in the way of the TB I am thinking of printing a 2-1 TB boots to connect the TB's to the plenum. This will mean 2 less hose clamps to secure the boots to the plenum, along with allowing the plenum to become about 60mm narrower in width.
Also started drawing in fusion rather than freecad.

Does plenum volume matter on an ITB boosted unit? OR can the plenum volume be as small as possible ?

pulsar GTx2867 is ordered and on route with .82 stainless dual vband ex housing

had some layer shifts on the print as can be seen however this is just a mockup/test run of print settings.

 

[farmerz24]

Running into some wiring issues. I decided to test the harness on the bench. I also have a power commander hooked inline with the stock wiring. When i turn the key, I can see the gauge light up and a relay click, but I do not get power to my power commander. (normally the power light will come on for a few seconds while the relay energizes, then again once cranking. However it does not power up). THis leads me to the starter solinoid.

It is a 3 wire solinoid, 1 wire has 12v when key is on, the other wire is grounded upon cranking (I can hear the solinoid click when "cranking" the key.) Is the 3rd wire mean to feed power to the ignition through the 30A fuse? I dont get any power here. strange enough, if I run a 12v jumper wire to this terminal then when i cycle the key the power commander will light up. Does anyone know why I am not getting power here or what I am doing wrong? I have the harness grounded to the battery at the main ground and power is being fed into the harness from the main power connector.

I also plan to swap to the sidewinder 2 wire start solinoid so that it can remain at the back of the sidewinder and save me more space upfront. I also swapped to a second apex solinoid and it had the same issue so I am not sure what is going on here. I also have a second apex harness, same issue. The apex motor was just in a running sled so im sure its something i have not done properly? Any advice appreciated here.



Thanks

The issue was that the solenoid needed main power to power that circuit. (Did not have the large red terminal connected to battery).

Looks like all is well here.
Next is to connect wiring in sled and crank sled to confirm coils are sparking.
Then , I can eliminate all of those ground blocks. Is there a reason why they run all the ground wires to the one block terminal. It looks like i could convert it down to 1 wire and save alot of wiring weight and make the loom much thinner. Anyone know? I plan to eliminate all the extra ground wires that run paralell to one another. I also am going to eliminate most of the redundant old school apex bulky connectors. Id like to integrate the sidewinder connector so its only one main connector rather than 20 little ones.

Finally, I plan to run the sidewinder 2 wire start solinoid at the back of the sled rather than the apex one. So I will need to run a main wire from back of sled to front, to power that ignition circuit that was previously powered by the old apex start solenoid.


-Other updates: The engine I got was meant to be this one from this sled. I got the sled also. However upon teardown I dont see any head studs, I did crack the pan to find the carrilo rods inside, but dont see head studs or the TI valves. It does look like the intake was ported however.

2007 Apex turbo built by Alpine and Mike Irmen

2007 Apex Turbo, CR Polished Tunnel,Billet drop and roll chain case, Billet 162 M10 floating axle with J.A.C.K.,162x2.5x16 Camoplast Challenger Extreme Track, Boost Cooler Meth injection system, Nitrous Express Noss system, Boss Seat, Fox Float front shocks, Titanium A Arms, Fully Built motor...

www.snowest.com

wimpy sidewinder intake port for comparison

 

[earthling]

Then , I can eliminate all of those ground blocks. Is there a reason why they run all the ground wires to the one block terminal. It looks like i could convert it down to 1 wire and save alot of wiring weight and make the loom much thinner. Anyone know? I plan to eliminate all the extra ground wires that run paralell to one another. I also am going to eliminate most of the redundant old school apex bulky connectors. Id like to integrate the sidewinder connector so its only one main connector rather than 20 little ones.


<snip>

Wires used to be cheap, and the larger costs in creating wire looms were from construction of the loom, not the wire itself and ultimately you pay for how many terminations there are. There used to be little incentive for the manufacturers to reduce the wire in the loom. That may have changed with supply chain issues (labor cost vs copper cost) but I haven't been on that side of the business (product manufacturing) in many years.

Pragmatically speaking, one reason that you see more wire and fewer connectors is that over time you are more likely to have a connector related failure than a wire as failures tend to happen at the ends of the wires and where the insulation fails due to wear. To eliminate all of those parallel runs you are introducing more connectors. Another reason is resiliency, when you couple more connectors you are relying on one wire for all circuits and you have an increase in criticality for that one wire. If the main bus wire fails, everything fails. So with multiple, parallel ground runs you move the point of failure to somewhere strategic and its less likely that one wire failure will hit the entire system. Its always a tradeoff and electronics folks will tell you to group like systems together into as few connectors as possible to find the best compromise of weight, resiliency, cost and longevity. You also have to keep in mind that some circuits can carry spurious high voltages on the ground wire. A great example is the post from @74Nitro where at position 10 you have the clamping/dispersion diode pair. The start circuit works by grounding the coil when the key is turned to the start position completing the circuit, as you do that, the coil energizes creating a magnetic field which pulls the internal switch to the closed position. When you stop cranking (return key to run or off position) the magnetic field collapses inducing voltage back into the system. Those diodes act like a diverter valve to dissipate the voltage by turning the electricity into heat, protecting the rest of the system from high voltage spikes. This is a common practice anytime you see a solenoid being used so you have to be careful where you cut out the ground wire because it doesn't matter from a design perspective where the diode physically is relative to the solenoid.

It can be done, but its all compromises.

 

[Srxspec]

Make the plenum as big as you possibly can. To small of a plenum will result in supersonic air speed which causes the air to be heated. You need a plenum twice the volume of the engine cc.

 

[farmerz24]

Almost got the apex wiring harness reconfigured. Should have this done in the next day or 2.
I ran the relays and fusebox up in the nose of the sidewinder. Some wires like speedo still need to be made longer.

Made up a bracket to print to attach the stock Apex gauges to the bars.

Pulsar turbo and 1.5 inch .065 304 stainless bends arrived today. My plan for the exhaust is to run a 4-2-1 header setup, kind of like the factory apex system. Doing this will also save space under the fuel tank as cyl 1 will merge into cyl2 almost immediately after turning 90degrees. 3 and 4 will also merge at a similar pipe length. I will try to make it almost equal length. I am using 1.5inch .065 stainless 304 for this. My primaries and secondaries are 1.5, then i will do the final merge into 2.25 and use a 2.25 bellows. (Does that seem too small? It should keep velocity up? ) The turbine inlet is a 2.5 inch vband and I will transition a cone to 2.5 right at the vband inlet, however after the vband the inlet into the turbine is already down to only 2 inch so i think a 2.25 pipe would be large enough?

Pictured is a 2 inch pipe ontop the turbine inlet.

Merging the 4-2 should also save some weight over a 4-1 header. This will also make packaging easier.

 

[farmerz24]

Also, does anyone know why you need to run the idle air control valve intake ports back into the intercooler on a turbo setup ? These are the ones that would be on the opposite side of the iac valve that the TB's are on. Are they ran back into the intercooler because the boost helps seal them from the opposite side? otherwise they would leak boost? In this case I was wondering why i couldnt put a PCV 1 way checkvalve on it. This would be done to eliminate another connection to the intake plenum during disassembly and re-assembly.

 

[kinger]

Is the 1.5" header tubes ID or OD?

Make the plenum larger, as big as you can.

Connecting multiple grounds reduces redundancy but should work. I actually added grounds from my battery to strategic parts of the the sled because I didn't trust it was all conductive. Just be smart here, grounds make or break a build from a PITA standpoint.

 

[farmerz24]

1.5 od tubing

 

[farmerz24]

The apex runs a pcv vent from the engine , along with an additional tube and some smaller tubes going to it’s oil tank.

The sidewinder only runs a pcv vent on the factory oil tank. Since I plan to use the factory sidewinder tank with vent , can I plug both the 2 holes mentioned above ?

Why does the apex run thst additional vent to the oil tank that thr sidewinder doesn’t ?