Clutch rattle driving me NUTS!!!

[74Nitro]

That is incorrect. Below are two videos of my 3 cyl Vector running with a PB 80 clutch, which has no traditional flyweights, rollers, pins or spider.

Video #1 , sled is running with the complete Power Bloc assembly. It sounds just like stock.

Video #2, sled is running with ALL internal clutch components removed. There is absolutely nothing left on the remaining fixed sheave to rattle, but the rattle we all hear is still there.

You guys form your own opinion, but I feel this proves the rattle originates from the stub shaft assembly. It's not from a stock Yamaha clutch, an aftermarket clutch, or any of the internal components. The only way to fix it, is to Loc-tite the splines. Unfortunately, reports claim the Loc-tite is only a temporary fix.

As mentioned before, I cannot comment on the 998 turbo, as I have no experience with it. If the 998 is in fact built with a stub shaft assembly, like the older 973 & 1049, then I'm afraid there's nothing that came be done for the rattle. It's just the nature of these engines. Yamaha engineers designed this feature for a reason. Is it noisy? Yes! But this has been a rock solid, reliable engine! It still runs like new!

I never said the rattle can be totally eliminated as it's true that some of the noise comes from the splines. However, the noise can be kept to a minimum by keeping the spider shimmed tight. I've had dozens of customers come through my shop complaining about this noise in ever since the 05 Vector came out. When I shim the spider slides tight as possible, the noise is substantially reduced. I rode a Nytro for years, and as soon as it started to get noisy, which is every 2000 miles, I split the spider and tighten things up with the Yamaha shims, or install new slides and 0-rings.
If you look at a parts fiche for the 2005 vector compared to the 2006, you will see that there is a different slide used with an 0-ring behind it. This was a result of customers complaining of noise. 2005 models were updated with part #8ES-slidr-kt, and I actually just ordered 3 of these kits on ebay for $15 each, as that is cheap and I know they will find a home.

No, you said my aftermarket clutch has internal components that rattle, which mimics what you call spider noise. I disproved that in the videos above.

My 2008 Vector with 973, sounded that way from day one with the stock clutch. My buddy's 2013 with 1049 is the same. All the shimming in the world won't help the rattle because it comes from the stub shaft splines.

No, you said my aftermarket clutch has internal components that rattle, which mimics what you call spider noise. I disproved that in the videos above.

My 2008 Vector with 973, sounded that way from day one with the stock clutch. My buddy's 2013 with 1049 is the same. All the shimming in the world won't help the rattle because it comes from the stub shaft splines.

1. In my earlier reply I stated that only part of the noise comes from the splines. I stand by that.
2. The powerbloc clutch may be better than I have anticipated. I have one sitting here, but have yet to try it.
3. I have to wonder however, why did you change out your clutch if you don't think it makes any noise.
and 4. Yes, shimming and/or replacing the slides and 0-rings does greatly reduce the clutch noise. I have done it for years and will continue to do so. I've also done it on the 4 cylinders, it greatly reduces the chatter noise at idle.

 

[North Bay Ned 691]

Not directed to you personally, so please don't take it that way but YES i'm very serious.
This guy posted Febuary 22 and yet no one on this forum could give him a good straight technical answer of what going on and be able to support it.
OHH, its the clutch shims, fair enough, why do they all doit?
Prove it to your self, do the clutch shims and post back your results. Then do the fix i suggest and post back...100% noise gone.

I had the dealer do the loctite on my stub shaft and noise was 100 percent gone.. they let it cure for several weeks....problem is that it only lasted 1200 km and the noise is back as bad as ever on my 1049 cc vk

 

[lund]

I had the dealer do the loctite on my stub shaft and noise was 100 percent gone.. they let it cure for several weeks....problem is that it only lasted 1200 km and the noise is back as bad as ever on my 1049 cc vk

That is 100% correct.

74Nitro instead of arguing over this, try the loc tite spline. Your sled will never sound better, kinda like a crouch rocket instead of an annoying rattly beater.

 

[74Nitro]

That is 100% correct.

74Nitro instead of arguing over this, try the loc tite spline. Your sled will never sound better, kinda like a crouch rocket instead of an annoying rattly beater.

But it doesn't last?

 

[STAIN]

I would be cautious about locking the splines on that shaft long term. There is space there for a reason, otherwise it would be a tapered fit.

 

[North Bay Ned 691]

But it doesn't last?

With my sled it lasted about 1200 km before I could hear the rattle at slow speeds and now it can be heard at idle and up to 50-60 km.
My dealer told me they just did the loctite/permatex on the stub shaft and nothing else.
I will be taking my sled into the dealer in the next week for its annual service and will discuss with them any other options. The noise drives me crazy and takes away from "my" enjoyment. I do hope there are other options (willing to pay) available but I am not overly optimistic.

 

[lund]

I have been doing this since 2010, Nytro's, Viper's and now will be on SW, we even showed the dealer here how to doit.
Its not hard to do infact i've done it so many times on these Yamaha's that it takes me about an hour from start to finish.
On my own sled i usually do it twice a season. The sled will tell you when cause it start's to rattle lightly and in a couple of rides will get louder.
My sled's were and are all 174x3" with MCX setups mods. I'm in BC and live 1 1/2 hour from Revelstoke. They are not treated kindly.
My Side Winder run's a 250hp MCX with a 174x3", CR tunnel, CAI and pipe. It has only 700 miles on it and its starting to rattle, you can take a hold of the primary and move it(feel it) back and forth. When it had no miles, there was no movement. It will be getting loctite treatment ASAP.
BTW, if its really bad you can get the stub shaft assembly from Yamaha for about $300. It will tighten things up, combined with loctite.
The more slop in the spline the less effective the loctite fix will be, it is best to loctite before then.

 

[North Bay Ned 691]

I have been doing this since 2010, Nytro's, Viper's and now will be on SW, we even showed the dealer here how to doit.
Its not hard to do infact i've done it so many times on these Yamaha's that it takes me about an hour from start to finish.
On my own sled i usually do it twice a season. The sled will tell you when cause it start's to rattle lightly and in a couple of rides will get louder.
My sled's were and are all 174x3" with MCX setups mods. I'm in BC and live 1 1/2 hour from Revelstoke. They are not treated kindly.
My Side Winder run's a 250hp MCX with a 174x3", CR tunnel, CAI and pipe. It has only 700 miles on it and its starting to rattle, you can take a hold of the primary and move it(feel it) back and forth. When it had no miles, there was no movement. It will be getting loctite treatment ASAP.
BTW, if its really bad you can get the stub shaft assembly from Yamaha for about $300. It will tighten things up, combined with loctite.
The more slop in the spline the less effective the loctite fix will be, it is best to loctite before then.

Hey thanks.

 

[kinger]

I have been doing this since 2010, Nytro's, Viper's and now will be on SW, we even showed the dealer here how to doit.
Its not hard to do infact i've done it so many times on these Yamaha's that it takes me about an hour from start to finish.
On my own sled i usually do it twice a season. The sled will tell you when cause it start's to rattle lightly and in a couple of rides will get louder.
My sled's were and are all 174x3" with MCX setups mods. I'm in BC and live 1 1/2 hour from Revelstoke. They are not treated kindly.
My Side Winder run's a 250hp MCX with a 174x3", CR tunnel, CAI and pipe. It has only 700 miles on it and its starting to rattle, you can take a hold of the primary and move it(feel it) back and forth. When it had no miles, there was no movement. It will be getting loctite treatment ASAP.
BTW, if its really bad you can get the stub shaft assembly from Yamaha for about $300. It will tighten things up, combined with loctite.
The more slop in the spline the less effective the loctite fix will be, it is best to loctite before then.

Not ever seeing the 'stub shaft' is there any possibility of drilling and taping a small hole in the stub shaft and putting a set screw in to tighten it up permanently?

 

[sask_dragon]

http://www.snowandmud.com/yamaha-turbo-or-supercharged/116128-yami-rattle.html

This may help some.

 

[STAIN]

Has anyone tried sending the primary out to be balanced? I know the clutch rattle is caused by the space between the splines on the stub shaft. The shaft itself does not make the noise. The noise is gone when starting the sled with no clutch. Maybe a balance will help.
I would be very hesitant about locking the stub shaft and crank shaft together, they are linked together with the splines FOR A REASON. If they wanted the clutch mounted to the end of the crank, they would have done it and saved the trouble of an extra shaft.

 

[yamadoo]

I believe the clutches are balanced and it is the power impulses that causes the rattling.

 

[lund]

Has anyone tried sending the primary out to be balanced? I know the clutch rattle is caused by the space between the splines on the stub shaft. The shaft itself does not make the noise. The noise is gone when starting the sled with no clutch. Maybe a balance will help.
I would be very hesitant about locking the stub shaft and crank shaft together, they are linked together with the splines FOR A REASON. If they wanted the clutch mounted to the end of the crank, they would have done it and saved the trouble of an extra shaft.

Yes your correct there is a reason and this is why, ONE to not have a side load applied to the crank as i mentioned above post. Babbit bearing's will not take a side load.
TWO, these motor are multi function use, this allows Yamaha to mount them in many different application. You will find these 1049 and 998 motors used in the side x side and in boats/watercrafts. Depending on the application the motor remains the same and only a connecting stub shaft is adapted for the needed application.
But under no circumstance can a side load be applied to a babbit bearing, IT WILL FAIL. Thus why a ball bearing stub shaft is used for a snowmobile application.

 

[kinger]

Yes your correct there is a reason and this is why, ONE to not have a side load applied to the crank as i mentioned above post. Babbit bearing's will not take a side load.
TWO, these motor are multi function use, this allows Yamaha to mount them in many different application. You will find these 1049 and 998 motors used in the side x side and in boats/watercrafts. Depending on the application the motor remains the same and only a connecting stub shaft is adapted for the needed application.
But under no circumstance can a side load be applied to a babbit bearing, IT WILL FAIL. Thus why a ball bearing stub shaft is used for a snowmobile application.

Thank you for continuing to help us understand this. Do you think a set screw would be good or bad as a alternative to the lock tite?

 

[STAIN]

Bad. You are still locking the 2 together.