Clutching on the cheap

[Ontarioviperxtx]

Too tight belt? Did you adjust your belt deflection correctly?

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Belt is just below sheave

 

[jeff_yam]

Ok then you have too much belt deflection. It should be almost 1/16" over the top of your secondary... Remove the 3 screws behind your secondary and you should be ok.

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[Ontarioviperxtx]

Ok then you have too much belt deflection. It should be almost 1/16" over the top of your secondary... Remove the 3 screws behind your secondary and you should be ok.

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They are out. I just installed a new belt last night too see and it is still just below sheave.

 

[RxSly]

What is the point of going with the 45/39 Helix? Can I keep the stock Helix if I just use washers as spacers? Reading through some pages on this thread and it was mentioned to not shim the Helix as it will ruin the glides? Also some people are having to put weights at the tip and in the middle?

Was all this said before the current specs posted on the first page?

 

[bleedyamaha]

I shimmed my helix so the spring had more room not to bind. I had no issues with my buttons. My aftermarket helix helped with performance. You can leave yours stock if ya like. The reason for more weight in tip and middle was as your sled breaks in it has more horse power and a lot of us were banging off the rev limiter. More weight was helping us stay off it.

 

[cannondale27]

I shimmed my helix so the spring had more room not to bind. I had no issues with my buttons. My aftermarket helix helped with performance. You can leave yours stock if ya like. The reason for more weight in tip and middle was as your sled breaks in it has more horse power and a lot of us were banging off the rev limiter. More weight was helping us stay off it.

I think it depends on helix. My ULmER k helix the corners hit buttons higher up and wreaked them with washer shimming helix.

 

[bleedyamaha]

Ok that’s good to know.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Thunder Products has a new spring that eliminates coil bind and is a better spring. No more shimming helix and every sled we tested the new orange secondary spring in was quicker ET's and more mph.

What is the point of going with the 45/39 Helix? Can I keep the stock Helix if I just use washers as spacers? Reading through some pages on this thread and it was mentioned to not shim the Helix as it will ruin the glides? Also some people are having to put weights at the tip and in the middle?

Was all this said before the current specs posted on the first page?

You can run your stock helix, but you may hit the rev limiter. If you do you can add heavier rivets to the tip. The 45/39 and 46/40 helix worked really good on the COTC clutch setup.

 

[RxSly]

Thunder Products has a new spring that eliminates coil bind and is a better spring. No more shimming helix and every sled we tested the new orange secondary spring in was quicker ET's and more mph.

You can run your stock helix, but you may hit the rev limiter. If you do you can add heavier rivets to the tip. The 45/39 and 46/40 helix worked really good on the COTC clutch setup.

Ok thanks for the knowledge NOS-PRO! Just to confirm you're talking about putting the sidewinder orange spring in a NA Viper? Does the soft start spring still work good with the orange secondary spring?

You've just opened up a world of questions lol I can't wait 3 months for snow!

 

[RTX]

Thunder Products has a new spring that eliminates coil bind and is a better spring. No more shimming helix and every sled we tested the new orange secondary spring in was quicker ET's and more mph.



You can run your stock helix, but you may hit the rev limiter. If you do you can add heavier rivets to the tip. The 45/39 and 46/40 helix worked really good on the COTC clutch setup.

So your saying the new orange spring from thunder products is a better spring than the blue spring they send with the viper heavy hitter kit?

 

[swampcat]

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Ok thanks for the knowledge NOS-PRO! Just to confirm you're talking about putting the sidewinder orange spring in a NA Viper? Does the soft start spring still work good with the orange secondary spring?

You've just opened up a world of questions lol I can't wait 3 months for snow!

LOL, I hear ya.... I'm waiting for snow also

Yes, the orange sidewinder spring from TP.

So your saying the new orange spring from thunder products is a better spring than the blue spring they send with the viper heavy hitter kit?

The midnight blue spring that comes with the big venom kit for the viper is a great spring and is included in the kit because that is how the kit was setup to run. Lonn asked @shagman and myself to come up with a kit that would be amazing for the Viper. We did that and the kit was made to use a softer spring with thinner wire diameter so it wouldn't coil bind. At that time, we didn't know about the sidewinder and what would be needed for it. After the winder came out and with the new secondary still coil binding, we tried the midnight blue spring but needed something stronger so a new company made Shagman and myself some new springs to test. After a few, we got a winner. It was then that we thought about how the spring would work in the older problem sleds with coil binding. This new orange spring is turning out to be the solution to a lot of sled clutch problems....possibly even belt problems.

But, what happened was this year the sidewinder needed a new secondary spring to eliminate coil bind and be strong enough to handle the hpr from the winder. After the orange spring was tested from mid spring to just a couple weeks ago, we had people try that new orange spring in their sleds. Apexes, Nytros, RX1's, 12 psi viper turbo running on E85 and steroids (LOL) and numerous sidewinders on asphalt and grass with huge improvements and some pretty impressive wins. We found out that the stock clutch setups on the apex, the Nytros, RX1's, Vipers and winders gained with the orange spring. Was it just eliminating coil bind? Maybe.... When I looked into why secondary springs were breaking...I got @shagman to verify that Yamaha had a huge problem with coil binding the secondary spring which was very noticeable on the turbo sleds because of the more power breaking the stock pink spring where the viper and Nytro didn't have the power to break the spring, just coil bind and the engine said "Oops, i'm done...no more mph for you!" This answers the question why the Vipers and Nytros never were able to see over 100 mph with the stock spring unless you machined the secondary, changed over to a complete clutch kit or shimmed the helix.

(Olaf Aaen's theory of clutching....heavy weights in the primary, heavy spring in the secondary....light weights in the primary, light spring in the secondary) It's all about making all the components work together.

The orange spring is recommended for all turbo sleds, clutched or non-clutched (in most cases no added/removed weight is needed, but conditions and sleds will vary because of tunes, exhausts and intake mods) and will work great with stock clutch setups that are currently using the stock pink or white secondary spring. Some have purchased the new orange spring for their clutch kit versions and will let me know how they work on the snow, but I am guessing they will work really good.

Hope this gets in depth and detail about how the spring was thought about, tested, proven and now available to you.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Very nice write-up! What are specs on this spring?

 

[NOS-PRO]

Very nice write-up! What are specs on this spring?

It's a custom spring and only Lonn at Thunder Products knows what the rates are.

I mentioned that the spring needed to have more side pressure and more twist than the stock spring....but use a smaller wire diameter to prevent coil binding.

 

[jeffgilbert]

I just received mine today after NOS-PRO recommendation for my turbo viper. I won't be testing for a few months untill we see some snow but after reading about in on the sidewinder page about testing it with some turbo vipers I cant wait to try it out.