Excessive primary clutch rattle

[ROCKERDAN]

I know with the 12004tec, We had two options of PB80, most guys used standard version but turbo guys would opt for the OD option which has bigger sheaves. I dont see a OD option for the Yammie one, at least not on the CVtech site.

I would want a OD version for certain, I know a few guys over on DT that should know about this.

 

[Motorhead]

Well I guess from what I hear on this post, not all have really noisy primary clutch as mine, period.

I have said it more then once, mine is loud and a few concur that theirs are also.

That being said I spoke with YAMAHA Relations department today concerning some parts that have been on order since October, and as I had said in another post, while I had their attention I wanted to point out a few negatives on the 2017 Sidewinder that I thought they could improve on, for the 2018 models.

Long story short, I conversed about the legendary Yamaha clutches and the problems this new model was experiencing.
When I specifically asked about the loud primary clutch, and if he knew of any repair or update that may be coming for such, he stated I was the first to address this with them, and unless a certain amount of people report the same loud clutch problem thus documenting it, nothing would be done!!

He also stated that now that I reported my loud clutch problem, and it is now documented with Yamaha, if they do come out with an update, OR if my clutch was to fail in the near future, I surely would hear from them whereas it is documented.

I also let him know about the many positives with this sled and that I was trying to help them make a better 2018 model.

FYI, skis were the other negative.

Also made sure to let him know that my dealer had done an amazing job on my sled when I brought it in for warranty etc. Wanted to make it clear that my concern was with Yamaha and certainly not with the dealer.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I know with the 12004tec, We had two options of PB80, most guys used standard version but turbo guys would opt for the OD option which has bigger sheaves. I dont see a OD option for the Yammie one, at least not on the CVtech site.

I would want a OD version for certain, I know a few guys over on DT that should know about this.

Just got reply, and apparently the yam PB80 only comes in OD version. So that is good to know.

 

[GlennM]

Just got reply, and apparently the yam PB80 only comes in OD version. So that is good to know.

Which means?

Sent from my SM-T705W using Tapatalk

 

[KnappAttack]

I really like the simplicity of the pb80 I ran on my modded 1200.....So this begs the question. Anyone ever try or consider trying a pb80 on a SW? Wonder how it would work? Wonder how it would hold up to 270hp? I know lots of 1200 guys with Stage 1 turbos run the Pb80 on their 240 "ish" HP Doo turbos.

Maybe Knapp will chime in here, he would have some good input.

Dan

PB80 would work well I think Dan. I'd try it myself If I knew it would get rid of the rattle, but from what I understand, the noise comes from the splines on the stub shaft. No Idea why the stub shaft is even there other than to install the engine into another type of vehicle.

Mine rattles bad and it drives me crazy. Its the one thing I dislike about the Sidewinder.

I put o-rings under the bolts on my rollers and it did nothing to quiet it down. The rattle makes the sled sound awful!

I started mine up and my bud with the Apex said to me that I forgot to put oil in the thing! LOL!! I got a good chuckle out of that one.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

PB80 would work well I think Dan. I'd try it myself If I knew it would get rid of the rattle, but from what I understand, the noise comes from the splines on the stub shaft. No Idea why the stub shaft is even there other than to install the engine into another type of vehicle.

Mine rattles bad and it drives me crazy. Its the one thing I dislike about the Sidewinder.

I put o-rings under the bolts on my rollers and it did nothing to quiet it down. The rattle makes the sled sound awful!

I started mine up and my bud with the Apex said to me that I forgot to put oil in the thing! LOL!! I got a good chuckle out of that one.

thanks Mike...My dealer swapped a NEW clutch onto his noisy SW, and it was quiet like new....So im wondering how much is actually clutch vs stub shaft.

Id love to slap on a pb80 just to see....It seems to me rattling primarys that are getting louder around 2500 miles, wont last very long....Sounds alot like the whole 4tec/TRA crap.

I have read a few older threads with Nytro owners having good luck with Pb80s.

Wowchad told me the Yam version already has OD, so that helps for us turbo guys.

Dan

 

[snowbeast]

PB80 would work well I think Dan. I'd try it myself If I knew it would get rid of the rattle, but from what I understand, the noise comes from the splines on the stub shaft. No Idea why the stub shaft is even there other than to install the engine into another type of vehicle.

Mine rattles bad and it drives me crazy. Its the one thing I dislike about the Sidewinder.

I put o-rings under the bolts on my rollers and it did nothing to quiet it down. The rattle makes the sled sound awful!

I started mine up and my bud with the Apex said to me that I forgot to put oil in the thing! LOL!! I got a good chuckle out of that one.

Mike,did you already buy a 2017 SW? I know you have been watching with wide eyes,sense you are one who loves boost too,but I thought you were checking out the 18,s?

 

[snowbeast]

Just got reply, and apparently the yam PB80 only comes in OD version. So that is good to know.

Dan,are you saying Powerblock has a clutch to fit onto Yamaha 30 taper shafts? What is the advantage of an old style Powerblock primary vrs the newer 3 ramp style primary?

 

[JestersYamacat]

thanks Mike...My dealer swapped a NEW clutch onto his noisy SW, and it was quiet like new....So im wondering how much is actually clutch vs stub shaft.

Id love to slap on a pb80 just to see....It seems to me rattling primarys that are getting louder around 2500 miles, wont last very long....Sounds alot like the whole 4tec/TRA crap.

I have read a few older threads with Nytro owners having good luck with Pb80s.

Wowchad told me the Yam version already has OD, so that helps for us turbo guys.

Dan

Hey Dan,

My bud did the same thing but after about two rides it was loud again. I love the sled for what it provides but this is not Yamaha quality at all and we cannot blame cat on this one(they are easy to blame for QC issues right). Mine sounds like a diesel truck even after I added some shims to the pins etc. definitely better but still loud. There has to be a way to put a rubber dampener in between the stub shaft and mating area to take this rattle out. I had friends ride the sled and were amazed by it but they all commented on the clutch noises and that is bad for the image of Yamaha and their QC. Sure it doesn't hurt the longevity or performance but that is a Cat way of doing things not what we expect from Yamaha right!

Jester

 

[STAIN]

This noise has been around for a while, at LEAST 10 years on the 3 cylinders, nothing new. I know some have tried Loctite (seems like a bad idea to me) but I don't know if anyone has tried RTV on the stub shaft splines? We used to have to do this on output shafts on older Toyota trucks to quiets drive shaft " ping " when changing directions.

 

[GYTR GEARHEAD]

This noise has been around for a while, at LEAST 10 years on the 3 cylinders, nothing new. I know some have tried Loctite (seems like a bad idea to me) but I don't know if anyone has tried RTV on the stub shaft splines? We used to have to do this on output shafts on older Toyota trucks to quiets drive shaft " ping " when changing directions.

guy have tryed everything from rtv silicone to loctite red,bleu,green some even tryed sleeve bond from loctite nothing last more then a few hours

 

[**sj**]

whats interesting here...is the same motor in the cats...and no complaints over there...Im wondering if its the crank output/stub shaft or the clutch after all..

also...theres significant side play between the weights and weight spacers AND between the weight and the roller face....SO im wondering if a larger roller (either a 15 or 15.5) (and yes I understand the less force of the larger roller) and or spider shim can make some weights make contact with the roller at idle (were the stockers dont) and therefore not rattle as much...with the negative being less ramp up run in the nuetral position?

Im also curious if my apex clutch is quieter..( I believe so ) and will be trying it when my sled returns



and for dan and mike...is the pb80 the same sheave angle?

 

[snowbeast]

PB80 would work well I think Dan. I'd try it myself If I knew it would get rid of the rattle, but from what I understand, the noise comes from the splines on the stub shaft. No Idea why the stub shaft is even there other than to install the engine into another type of vehicle.

Mine rattles bad and it drives me crazy. Its the one thing I dislike about the Sidewinder.

I put o-rings under the bolts on my rollers and it did nothing to quiet it down. The rattle makes the sled sound awful!

I started mine up and my bud with the Apex said to me that I forgot to put oil in the thing! LOL!! I got a good chuckle out of that one.

Hi Mike,i did a little searching on the pb80,very simple looking clutch,but how would we hold that clutch from going CW when we want to install it,with a torque wrench,do PB provide a strap wrench to install and remove the clutch for a price? Cheapest price I could find was on E-Bay $470.00 us funds.

 

[snowbeast]

Cvtech site only goes up to 2015....but they do have a pb80 for viper models, maybe same for SW?

Would be an interesting experiment....there are literally no moving parts that wear on a PB 80, and they are the only clutch that stands up to the harmonics of the 1200 doo.
View attachment 128408
View attachment 128409

Hi Dan,i was on there site today and for the 2015 viper the price was $570.00 was that Canadian pricing I saw?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Easy way to figure this all out...in another thread a member ran the pb80 on his nytro, now this may have been awhile back so not sure if he would remember. But search up pb80 nytro section. He sure seemed to like it. I wonder if his was quiet?

So me not knowing the history of Nytro/Viper....are you guys all saying those rattled the same and its NOT clutch, but the stub shaft? I dont ever recall any of this from buds how owned them yrs ago.

As for pb80....well, those things are so darn simple, no arms, no weights, no rollers, literally no moving parts...just a big plastic BLOCK that slides within the angled cap....its so simple its hard to believe they even work.LOL

I just keep thinking, for abit more then the price of a clutch kit, you can buy entire pb80 and likely have quietest clutch made and one that lasts many many thousands of miles without even worry of rebuild. Nothing to really wear out.

Pete there are only two tools needed, a LARGE 1-7/16 socket to remove the large NUT, and then a HOLDER tool which is cheap too. Many guys with stock 1200s run these clutches, I loved mine. And many with stage 1 around 240hp use them too, but not alot that I know of over 250hp...so not sure the limitations on them. Wowchad is a member on DT and here, and he tells me they have a 2 stage spring setup being worked on for the SW turbo. But there currently is a pb80 out now for nytro/viper which should physically fit....just likely would need a heavier set of weights.

Few pics of my 1200 pb80....