Excessive primary clutch rattle

[ROCKERDAN]

Its less then 500usd too....this is why I contemplate things like this, as a clutch kit for stock primary is getting closer to the cost of a new clutch. And so It would be really nice if someone could test with a pb80 back to back with a mule sled beside, to see if the 'acceleration' was anywhere close or not to stock clutch.....cause even if it was abit less, but top speeds were all similar, many might choose to go this route for LONGEVITY(nothing wears out) and rattle free use.

Things like this keep me up at night....grrrr

 

[GYTR GEARHEAD]

Its less then 500usd too....this is why I contemplate things like this, as a clutch kit for stock primary is getting closer to the cost of a new clutch. And so It would be really nice if someone could test with a pb80 back to back with a mule sled beside, to see if the 'acceleration' was anywhere close or not to stock clutch.....cause even if it was abit less, but top speeds were all similar, many might choose to go this route for LONGEVITY(nothing wears out) and rattle free use.

Things like this keep me up at night....grrrr

buddy of mine installed one 12000 km ago and no issue at all so far she work flawlessly from day one this was is forth season on the same belt !

 

[Snowaddict]

buddy of mine installed one 12000 km ago and no issue at all so far she work flawlessly from day one this was is forth season on the same belt !

On a sidewinder?

 

[GYTR GEARHEAD]

On a sidewinder?

nop doo 1200

 

[KnappAttack]

Sweet,have you been racking up any miles yet,or did you just get it mike? Thanks for the pb80 I was more interested in belt grip and engagement and overall rpms holding,but sounds like I may be better off with what I have. Mine does rattle some at idle but once going cant hear it,or its not there.

Put a couple hundred miles on it stock after a freak 15" snow dump we had late in the winter.

Overall RPM will hold great and belt grip will be fine as long as you are not racing from a dead stop with decent traction. PB80 is a great trail clutch, but will never be a drag race clutch.

 

[snowbeast]

pb80 wich almost get the rattle away

OK yes,i went to there site and checked it out,looks very simple,but like Mike already stated,it may quiet the noise down,but if you want better belt pinch you cant get it from that clutch.

 

[snowbeast]

Now that my sled is back in my garage,i started looking things over,just because I can. And all the belt dust all over everything is disappointing,and the fact that I did not have my filter bag on,now my filter is so dirty,i washed it,in hot water and soap but it did not come out very clean.I did start it up,before I removed side panels and hood,to see how noisy at idle it was,wow mine is great,not bad at all,and yes I do have a noisy muffler compared to stock,but even that does not sound bad at idle too.

 

[GYTR GEARHEAD]

OK yes,i went to there site and checked it out,looks very simple,but like Mike already stated,it may quiet the noise down,but if you want better belt pinch you cant get it from that clutch.

for trail riding this clutch works really well it's so smooth or even in deep snow at low rpm under 2000 he get good belt bite i agree for high horse power appication this clutch might not be the best option for hole shot but wide open pass down the lake aint a problem there no down fall swaping to the pb80 for 90% of us

 

[dgjr636]

Now that my sled is back in my garage,i started looking things over,just because I can. And all the belt dust all over everything is disappointing,and the fact that I did not have my filter bag on,now my filter is so dirty,i washed it,in hot water and soap but it did not come out very clean.I did start it up,before I removed side panels and hood,to see how noisy at idle it was,wow mine is great,not bad at all,and yes I do have a noisy muffler compared to stock,but even that does not sound bad at idle too.

It's my believe that not only does a louder less restricted exhaust overcome or muffle the clutch noise but yet it slightly changes the harmonics of the motor.
Less restriction in the exhaust = less back pulse through the engine. We see this with many 4 stroke motorcycles that we install less restrictive exhausts.

 

[Port-Parts]

In regards to the original topic of excessive clutch rattle here's my thoughts regarding it.

It seems every time we get a new model it brings new owners into the Yamaha fold and the whole noisy clutch thing gets a lot of chatter (no pun intended...) - the Yamaha clutches combined with the harmonics of the 4 stroke engines has made a noisy combination all the way back to 2003 RX-1 days - the 3 cylinder models definitely make more noise than the 4 cylinders do as the power pulses are further apart which is what actually causes the chattering type noise. The Yamaha primary clutch hasn't really changed all that much since the 2-stroke days when there was no complaints of rattle type noises from the clutch area. The 2-stroke sleds were generally louder so it would have been harder to hear as well but in general a 2-stroke triple (SRX/SX-Viper) has a power stroke/pulse every 120 degrees of crankshaft rotation compared to the 4-stroke 4 cylinder (Apex/RX-1) having one every 180 degrees and a 4-stroke triple (Vector/Nytro/Viper/Sidewinder) having a power stroke/pulse every 240 degrees. This longer duration on the 4-stroke triples between power pulses puts a pulsing type motion through the crankshaft, stub shaft, and primary clutch causing the rattle type noise. The exact location of the rattle type noise comes from a variety of areas including the stub shaft, clutch sliders (which dampen the spider to sliding sheave area) and the loose fitting bolts/collars on the rollers and weights. The most noticeable area being the clutch slider area - when the 4-stroke triple was released in 2005 in the Vector model was the first year complaints were high on the clutch rattle noise - in response Yamaha came out with an updated clutch slider that used an o-ring behind the slider to help dampen some of the noise and issued a tech bulletin to install them on 05 Vector models and then Yamaha put them into all production 4-stroke models 2006 and newer - the o-rings initially help quiet them down but after a few thousand miles the o-rings flatten and the noise comes back. The good thing is the noise never actually causes a failure of any sort it's just rather annoying. It's been with us a long time and I'd love to see it gone but honestly I don't see that happening easily...

 

[XP123]

I had an Apex and I didn't notice a whole lot of clutch noise except when I first started it up cold. The drone from the rear exhaust wouldn't let me hear much of anything else once riding it. Then I got an 08 Nytro and that clutch was noticeably louder also at cold starts and if I listened at the front of the sled. The drone of that rear exhaust also made it difficult to hear anything else but the drone in the rear. Now the SW clutch is also loud like the Nytro was but the engine is so much quieter especially while riding that now you can hear the clutch more. When I ride my SW the engine is so quiet that I can actually hear my ski's going over the snow. I'll bet if the SW had that annoying rear exhaust drone there would be far less complaints about loud clutches because most of us would be almost deaf by now. I had 7 thousand miles on my Nytro when I sold it and the clutch was never touched except for blowing the dust off it once a season.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I started wearing iPod many yrs ago, when I got the Apex, all because of the drone. I remember huge threads here as we had tons and tons of apex owners in that first winter of 06....Many people started wearing iPods as they were just becoming poplular at the time. And me being so into music, Ive been wearing my jamms ever since. So the loud mufflers, or my RAM AIR did not bother me, nor does the clutch rattle....I know on Toms I would only hear it at pull away abit, then the SQ muffler takes over and jamms get cranked..lol

For me,its more a worry that the rattling clutches WILL NOT LAST, more then the actual noise itself. Its definitely a triple cylinder harmonics(pulses) thing....Cause the apex 4 cyl did not have it, and I do not recall any issues with the big ZUK twin 4s. So you would think these companies(doo/yam) would either use a dampener, or use a different clutch design maybe like PB80. BRP came out with their Edrive with twice the number of ramps/weights ect...It works well, but took them some time to get it right. But many still will buy a pb80 for 450 bucks like I did.

I still would love some of these clutch gurus(Allen?) to test with a pb80 vs stocker vs clutched(stock) setups....Heck, if it was not for Bill Cudney doing all the original legwork on the Pb80/1200 doo....Cvtech would still be in the dark, after Bill came up with the setup, Cvtech/ pb8o came into the mainstream.

Dan

 

[journeyman]

Put a couple hundred miles on it stock after a freak 15" snow dump we had late in the winter.

Overall RPM will hold great and belt grip will be fine as long as you are not racing from a dead stop with decent traction. PB80 is a great trail clutch, but will never be a drag race clutch.

My father ran the old Powerblock clutch from the 1970's on his Free Air 400 Ski-Doo. A few guys in the area tried them but didn't have as much success with them as dad did.

Is the current PB80 designed somewhat similar to that one?

I believe the original was a Duclo design first seen on the old Brut machines. Then later in the 1980's Webb and Lonn Peterson were distributing a similar version called the Magnum Gold Powershift. I actually tried one on some Phazers and Exciters. I achieved better top end but was not happy with the down low take off.

Getting back to your clutch rattle, maybe in stock form the SW's are so quiet it makes it more noticeable. I remember the same complaint on the 1200 Doo's which are awfully quiet in stock form. If my Attak was more quiet maybe it would show up on that too. Other than the SW primary looking a hair more beefy, I don't see why it would rattle that much more than the previous YXR primary. Unless it's the weights and rollers...?

 

[KnappAttack]

My father ran the old Powerblock clutch from the 1970's on his Free Air 400 Ski-Doo. A few guys in the area tried them but didn't have as much success with them as dad did.

Is the current PB80 designed somewhat similar to that one?

I believe the original was a Duclo design first seen on the old Brut machines. Then later in the 1980's Webb and Lonn Peterson were distributing a similar version called the Magnum Gold Powershift. I actually tried one on some Phazers and Exciters. I achieved better top end but was not happy with the down low take off.

Getting back to your clutch rattle, maybe in stock form the SW's are so quiet it makes it more noticeable. I remember the same complaint on the 1200 Doo's which are awfully quiet in stock form. If my Attak was more quiet maybe it would show up on that too. Other than the SW primary looking a hair more beefy, I don't see why it would rattle that much more than the previous YXR primary. Unless it's the weights and rollers...?

Troy,
PB80 is like the old pb50 yes. Not to be confused with the Duclo which was a different design and Mfgr.

All the three cylinder four-strokes rattle the clutch, its just the way the harmonics work. The sidewinder is the same as the 1200's, Vectors and Nytros were and rattle the clutch at the same RPM's too. All the way up to 5000 RPM! Drives me nuts. When I turboed my first 1200 the rattle went away with my pinned TRA because I was able to load it heavier with weight. I'm hoping I can get the same effect when boosting the Winder up and loading it up with weight, if not I may have to throw the PB80 on to fix the god awful rattle, I don't want people to think I forgot to put oil in the engine after all!!! LOL!

 

[**sj**]

its the power pulses of the motor and the intentional gap between the splined crank output and the splined hub....the gap is left to relieve the pulses that if solid would load in the pto crank bearing....truthfully id rather replace a pto crank bearing every so often than the rattle..

also..the reason the apex didnt have this problem ...the gear reduction unit took away the pulses...thereby the power coming out the gear reduction was "clean"

its also been said...a free flowing exhaust might change the pulses and thereby reduce the rattle...tighter weights to side bushings and weight face to roller would greatly reduce this along with taking the play out of the pins with various methods described....