Getting rid of the roll over valve

[ROCKERDAN]

What about when we change our oil and filter? Will we need to close off the open hose for a few min so the system can prime itself?

I did a full change recently, even drained all my tubes on muffler side, zero oil in my sled.

Fired it up and it primed, light went out within 3 seconds.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

True when I rebuilt my apex, the first initial firing up of dry pump needed priming.

If you roll your sled, think it over when you restart it, and watch your oil light. Same as when you do an oil change.

Dan

 

[BlueByYou2000]

No there is no need to prime the pump when changing the oil and filter. This is because the oil pump still has oil in it and it will self prime.

Typically the only time you may need to re-prime an oil pump, is if it has drawn in air and lost oil pressure. For example if you lay the sled over and the engine is still running. When this happens, the inlet port in the oil tank may be exposed to air and consequently that air could get drawn in to the pump causing it to loose prime.

On the Sidewinder, the stock normally closed ROV allows it to be somewhat self priming because the vent back pressure forces oil back to the oil pump inlet once the engine is started.
The main draw back (and topic of this thread) is that the stock ROV may be susceptible to freezing closed.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that when you make a modification, it can change the other factors as well. In this case when you convert to an open vent system on a Sidewinder you are basically converting it to a Viper breather system only without the Viper's air/oil separator tank.
Will it work? Sure it will, but with that in mind Viper/7000's can and do loose prime fairly easily if you roll them a certain way. I know, it happened five times to me the first day I rode my 7000!
If you never roll your sled then it's no big deal. However if you like to play off trail or ride the mountains, then the chance of loosing prime is something to keep in mind and be prepared for.

So I bought all the stuff to install this open air vent. I bought 1/2" id coolant hose. Are you saying it needs to be 5/8"? Or will the 1/2 work? Thank you.

 

[XP123]

So I bought all the stuff to install this open air vent. I bought 1/2" id coolant hose. Are you saying it needs to be 5/8"? Or will the 1/2 work? Thank you.

The 1/2 inch hose can handle lots of pressure and I'm sure 1/8 of an inch won't make any difference. I can't imagine enough pressure going through that 1/2 inch hose to cause back pressure in the oil tank.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

LOL....how the hell is ANY pressure gonna build with an OPEN tube? It wont.

Its got far less pressure then the stock setup trying to push open that junk valve all the time.

 

[XP123]

LOL....how the hell is ANY pressure gonna build with an OPEN tube? It wont.

Its got far less pressure then the stock setup trying to push open that junk valve all the time.

I have no idea but apparently there was a post about going with a smaller hose than what came stock because at high RPM's there will be a lot pressure going through it. Could you imagine that 1/2 inch hose not being able to handle the volume coming from the tank.

 

[BlueByYou2000]

Guys,
I urge you to take a step back and think about why the factory uses a 5/8" vent line in the first place! It's because there is a LARGE volume of air flow at higher RPM! What you feel flowing out of the oil tank at idle is only a fraction of what the flow is at 9000 RPM!
If the engineers had felt that a 3/8" vent was sufficient, then they would have built the sled that way in the first place!!!!! Why? Because it would been easier to package in to the sled AND it would be cheaper for them to do so!

Several years ago a guy came up with the idea of using a $10 PCV valve as roll over valve. Well another member thought that it sounded like a good idea and tried it on his Phazer. The result was he blew up his engine due to a bottom end failure and the OP ended up re-posting a warning not to try it. I can see where this thread might be heading in the same direction.
Someone could be reading this thread and thinking that "well the OP used 5/8" hose and I don't have any 5/8", but I have some 3/8" so that should work". Well it might or it might not. If doesn't work, you run the risk of pitching a rod through the side of the block.

The bottom line is that's it's your sled and do to it what you want. But please understand the oil tank vent is not the same as a valve cover or gas tank vent. The flow requirements are far greater and vary with RPM, engine load and oil pump/scavenge pump flow rates. Remember the oiling system is the life blood of your engine and the breather system is engineered to use 5/8" tubing/hose for a reason.

Bill

Rockerdan and XP123 this is the post that prompted my question.

 

[KnappAttack]

I'm going to 1/2" heater hose and going away from the clear 5/8" hose as I feel it will flow just fine and will not become brittle over time with all the heat. There is a lot of heat under this panel, and even though the clear hose I have is wrapped with foil tape and doing fine, I feel rubber heater hose was designed for higher heat.

The hose after the factory roll over valve is 1/2" also and it flows just fine.

 

[BlueByYou2000]

Thanks boys

 

[XP123]

Rockerdan and XP123 this is the post that prompted my question.

I know why you asked and when I first read it I wondered the same thing.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I'm going to 1/2" heater hose and going away from the clear 5/8" hose as I feel it will flow just fine and will not become brittle over time with all the heat. There is a lot of heat under this panel, and even though the clear hose I have is wrapped with foil tape and doing fine, I feel rubber heater hose was designed for higher heat.

The hose after the factory roll over valve is 1/2" also and it flows just fine.

Thanks for update Mike, Since you are to OP all kudos to this man.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Rockerdan and XP123 this is the post that prompted my question.

I believe the situation of a large enough hose for volume, is a valid concern.....

However that is when those hoses have something on the other end, where its connected to. They are not a WIDE OPEN HOSE like we are doing.

A wide open hose with ZERO on the opposite end, simply can never build pressure. Unless it gets iced up/plugged. Which leads right back to the original issue of not being able to let off the pressure due to the freezing valve, and what happened? It would start to push out the silicone seal.

So, other then emissions....i feel this is a good solving of a potential problem that is not easy to fix, after the seal starts pushing oil, and potentially causing catastrophic failure.

Dan

 

[Never Satisfied]

Ran 400 miles in subzero temps all weekend with the open 5/8" heater hose and it worked great. Tons of high speed open trails. I can't believe this has gone 17 pages. Talk about over-analyzing to the point of paralysis.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ran 400 miles in subzero temps all weekend with the open 5/8" heater hose and it worked great. Tons of high speed open trails. I can't believe this has gone 17 pages. Talk about over-analyzing to the point of paralysis.

LOL....I agree, its a hose for Christ's sake! haha

 

[YukonMP]

Yes, but it is on a SIDEWINDER! You guys are so enthusiastic I can't believe it.