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LTX 137 lack of transfer..Reasoning/Solution?



thanks to Mike for rekindling my memory....I remember doing that with my cat back them and yes...it rides better....I say it provides more tuning range for the varying weights of guys...they probably dont do it still for costs and warranty...Im sure more holes increase the chance of rail cracking failure
 

If moving the rear scissor forward a tad is the answer, we would need some bar stock on each side because i don't think there is enough meat in the rails for new holes.
 
stevewithOCD said:
If moving the rear scissor forward a tad is the answer, we would need some bar stock on each side because i don't think there is enough meat in the rails for new holes.
Click to expand...
Steve thats why it wasnt done 4 years ago at least in my case. Tried other methods and made great strides in ride and transfer. Static height is the last piece I need for my goals. If I lower my sled with spacers and limiter I instantly gain a minimum of 3 mph in crummy snow but its not trail worthy. I and many want both.
 
A few points guys:

1) bending the torsion spring does not change the rate, only a preload or starting position. Think of taking a coilover and cranking the nuts to squish the coil spring as much as possible, you're storing that energy in the spring. Or conversely taking the the nuts all the way to last thread near the end of the body, would yield more squish or set in when you hop on the sled. If you were going to bend it I'd be inclined to use a press and do it cold. heat could take temper out, now you have a kink in the spring, it may fatigue and bend more there, for sure keep an eye on it.

2) has anyone researched the amount (I'm assuming there's a shrader valve, don't have my new sled yet) of nitrogen charge in these shocks? I'm not sure what amount would ordinarily be in to mitigate foaming, but it's not much. I've got a good friend at Fox (who sets up the go fast offroad trucks- I used to race Ultra 4) who can let me know. But if the nitrogen charge is a lot higher, 100-200 psi then in fact the sh0ck is part of the weight carrying setup. This could potentially be an opportunity to reduce some of the rate.

3) remember that motocross bikes, go fast razors, trophy trucks all take similar whoops.... and they have a loaded neutral travel of somewhere near 50/50 or 60/40, usually more up travel than droop. heck a trophy truck has way more droop than up at static height.

4) One could help xfer through adjusting/softening the compression valving on the rear spring, the valving is resisting the spike in desired compression. you might gain more by keeping the ride height higher but take out the valving. If you are worried about bottoming, pull out a lot rebound valving too, this allows you suspension to droop back to "normal" faster before it hits the next whoop, effectively giving you more usable travel to take the whoop.

Most of us are not flying these sleds over whoops.... but still looking for the subtle improvements for where and how we ride. Maybe I'll be more useful once i get my sled and some seat time.... but then again, I usually ride nicer groomed trails.
 
Conedodger said:
A few points guys:

1) bending the torsion spring does not change the rate, only a preload or starting position. Think of taking a coilover and cranking the nuts to squish the coil spring as much as possible, you're storing that energy in the spring. Or conversely taking the the nuts all the way to last thread near the end of the body, would yield more squish or set in when you hop on the sled. If you were going to bend it I'd be inclined to use a press and do it cold. heat could take temper out, now you have a kink in the spring, it may fatigue and bend more there, for sure keep an eye on it.

2) has anyone researched the amount (I'm assuming there's a shrader valve, don't have my new sled yet) of nitrogen charge in these shocks? I'm not sure what amount would ordinarily be in to mitigate foaming, but it's not much. I've got a good friend at Fox (who sets up the go fast offroad trucks- I used to race Ultra 4) who can let me know. But if the nitrogen charge is a lot higher, 100-200 psi then in fact the sh0ck is part of the weight carrying setup. This could potentially be an opportunity to reduce some of the rate.

3) remember that motocross bikes, go fast razors, trophy trucks all take similar whoops.... and they have a loaded neutral travel of somewhere near 50/50 or 60/40, usually more up travel than droop. heck a trophy truck has way more droop than up at static height.

4) One could help xfer through adjusting/softening the compression valving on the rear spring, the valving is resisting the spike in desired compression. you might gain more by keeping the ride height higher but take out the valving. If you are worried about bottoming, pull out a lot rebound valving too, this allows you suspension to droop back to "normal" faster before it hits the next whoop, effectively giving you more usable travel to take the whoop.

Most of us are not flying these sleds over whoops.... but still looking for the subtle improvements for where and how we ride. Maybe I'll be more useful once i get my sled and some seat time.... but then again, I usually ride nicer groomed trails.
Click to expand...
There is 200 psi in shock. I experimented all the way down to 50psi and it did help but was worried about blowing shock out. Ride and bumps. Big ones are not the issue. I feel between great stock shocks and revalving the bad factory shocks ride and bumps are not a issue. On Par or close with the best. I do know with more sag we will maybe need to revalve or adjust shocks. Thats easy. I like #3. Keep it coming. Like I said a Zero Preload Suspension with low height and big travel are way of future.
 
cannondale27 said:
There is 200 psi in shock. I experimented all the way down to 50psi and it did help but was worried about blowing shock out. Ride and bumps. Big ones are not the issue. I feel between great stock shocks and revalving the bad factory shocks ride and bumps are not a issue. On Par or close with the best. I do know with more sag we will maybe need to revalve or adjust shocks. Thats easy. I like #3. Keep it coming. Like I said a Zero Preload Suspension with low height and big travel are way of future.
Click to expand...
Blowing it out in what regard? Is the shock itself the bumpstop (usually would use a rubber or poly donut on the shaft) and you were bottoming often? or does the linkage etc have some rubber bumps? When I think of blowing a shock out it usually has to do with too much oil and it now acts as a bump stop before all the travel is used because the oil won't compress.
 
Conedodger said:
Blowing it out in what regard? Is the shock itself the bumpstop (usually would use a rubber or poly donut on the shaft) and you were bottoming often? or does the linkage etc have some rubber bumps? When I think of blowing a shock out it usually has to do with too much oil and it now acts as a bump stop before all the travel is used because the oil won't compress.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the Nitrogen pressure in shock assists the seals in sealing especially when not compressed. Bumpstops are on the rails but it never bottomed at 50psi. 200psi is Fox and Cat spec. Maybe I am just to cautious?
 
all i know is moving that bottom scissor forward an inch will act softer early and have sit in....and of course more transfer...all of which is needed and welcomed and really no down side...AND later we can specifically valve for our needs...who's going to be first to experiment
 
actionjack said:
So you have done this? Or seen it done. Any pics? It seems that there is a bump stop for the scissor too that must be moved. Curious to see Travis' idea too.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have done this on a couple sleds and I have moved the coupler block shaft down and back so I can leave the blocks on. Going backwards does not compromise the rail in any way. I just spoke with Hygear who has my shocks and is preparing to finish them up. They told me to take out the black blocks to allow the arm to move more before it tries to couple. I may do this or just move the shaft, not sure yet. Either way they want 3" of set in when I am on the sled.
 
many have removed the blocks and damaged the "pads"...I have a racewerx block of which I reduced the max setting thickness to equal the rod and maybe a piece of rubber hose.....so now I have essentially the rod for max...with the ability to dial it closed for trail riding....
 
Just measured the sit-in drop at the rear bumper of my LTX-le. I weigh 225 and the bumper dropped 3.5" with torsion springs at softest setting and shocks on #1.
 
You really need to put on all your gear to measure correctly. I weigh just over 190 and mine didn’t move much. I like the torsions to be set on #1 with just me. That way I can crank them up as I add gear. I also have a 2-up kit on mine. Adding my 9 year old nets out another 80. Rides OK like that! With my revalve I may need to spin the couplers when he is on.
 
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