No washer behind secondary

[krm]

Why not start floating the driven ,set up the belt adj. like the drivens were in years past .Either shims or tap the back side of the driven and get the 3 screws and shims ?

 

[XP123]

I feel bad for those who are having issues. It really dampens ownership enthusiasm. I know My Winder would be at the bottom of a lake right now if I went through all those belts Soupy has. Life is too short to have to deal with that.

My Winder now has 2800 miles on it with the original belt. I took out my belt to compare it to my new spare. I can see no wear whatsoever. Maybe I need to ride harder? The kicker is I have no idea what my offset is or my center to center because I really don't care. I have the original secondary rollers with no flat spots. Maybe it's a crap shoot with these sleds? It's not like it's only the tuned ones that are having issues either. There are plenty of stock Winders that are belt blowers. Also the fact that the Cat guys aren't having issues points at the Yamaha clutches and not the engine or Cat frame.

Yamaha needs to address this but I'm afraid Yamaha has checked out of the snowmobile business and is just coasting along like nothing is wrong.

 

[Soupy]

Got my stuff back from my machinist.....

Had him take off 4mm off hub, which makes it past flush when full shifted. And then I had him make me 3 shims, that are a slightly smaller OD then stock YAM shims. This way I can shim it wherever I want, and it will allow the shim to go inside if need be.

I had him make me a 2mm, 1.5mm, 1mm, shown in pic below....and then the stock 1mm which is larger OD.

I am now able to put my clutch anywhere from 58mm on up to 61. Where mine sits, I use the 1.5mm and end up right around 58.8mm or just under 59mm. Which I think is where I will put it now.

Dan

View attachment 138720 View attachment 138721

After moving the secondary inward, do you feel that the belt is doglegged at idle and rubs on the inner primary sheave?

 

[KnappAttack]

After moving the secondary inward, do you feel that the belt is doglegged at idle and rubs on the inner primary sheave?

Yes it does and it should. The belt needs to ride up the primary before it starts shifting in the driven and lines up better when moving, but at idle it has dogleg outward on the primary yes. You don't want it lined up at idle, but at 1:1 it needs to line up.

If its setup properly it will do this. Pull the shield off and watch what happens as the driven floats and the belt goes thru its shifting with the track off the ground. The driven floats out at lower ratio and higher ratio moves inward when higher 1:1 ratio.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I feel bad for those who are having issues. It really dampens ownership enthusiasm. I know My Winder would be at the bottom of a lake right now if I went through all those belts Soupy has. Life is too short to have to deal with that.

My Winder now has 2800 miles on it with the original belt. I took out my belt to compare it to my new spare. I can see no wear whatsoever. Maybe I need to ride harder? The kicker is I have no idea what my offset is or my center to center because I really don't care. I have the original secondary rollers with no flat spots. Maybe it's a crap shoot with these sleds? It's not like it's only the tuned ones that are having issues either. There are plenty of stock Winders that are belt blowers. Also the fact that the Cat guys aren't having issues points at the Yamaha clutches and not the engine or Cat frame.

Yamaha needs to address this but I'm afraid Yamaha has checked out of the snowmobile business and is just coasting along like nothing is wrong.

Joe I think the cats just have a better/tougher belt, we have a viper belt designed for 135hp. I actually think our clutches are better their cats, just we dont have access to a ultra tough belt made for turbo HP, Cat had so many belt issues for so long I believe they have built a belt to take it.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

After moving the secondary inward, do you feel that the belt is doglegged at idle and rubs on the inner primary sheave?

I have not even tried anything as our trail/snow is gone for 2 weeks now..grrr

Still hoping for a last season trip north of here as their trails are still good just 3 hrs north of me, if so I will at least get some time on new offset. I would be ecstatic if I could get belt life upped over 1000miles at 270hp. That is hard riding too, not touring miles. I think my area is such corner to corner,on/off throttle constantly its the worst punishment on belts w/big tune.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Yes it does and it should. The belt needs to ride up the primary before it starts shifting in the driven and lines up better when moving, but at idle it has dogleg outward on the primary yes. You don't want it lined up at idle, but at 1:1 it needs to line up.

If its setup properly it will do this. Pull the shield off and watch what happens as the driven floats and the belt goes thru its shifting with the track off the ground. The driven floats out at lower ratio and higher ratio moves inward when higher 1:1 ratio.

I like it Mike.....Im hoping this all translates over to where I can ride and not worry about damn belts anymore. Owning all this power is incredible, but when worried about using it due to belts, Id honestly rather be on a 600, where I can at least hold it WOT all day long.lol

 

[KnappAttack]

Joe I think the cats just have a better/tougher belt, we have a viper belt designed for 135hp. I actually think our clutches are better their cats, just we dont have access to a ultra tough belt made for turbo HP, Cat had so many belt issues for so long I believe they have built a belt to take it.

Dan

Gonna argue this one with you too Dan, just talked with my bud who's coming back from the wennie roast, he blew a belt on his Cat too, little rough spot on the snow and bang. Cats belt is no tougher. The 8JP is a good belt when aligned properly, just as good as the best out there.

He had one of if not the fastest 998's there and ran just the 290R production tune I installed for him last week in one of his machines. Only one other sled was side by side with him and he think it may have had a Link system in it, it was a machine RedCup racing brought and was tuned by Glenn. The point is, its a fast machine and it took out a Cat belt on the rough stuff, so its not as tough of a belt as you think it might be.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Gonna argue this one with you too Dan, just talked with my bud who's coming back from the wennie roast, he blew a belt on his Cat too, little rough spot on the snow and bang. Cats belt is no tougher. The 8JP is a good belt when aligned properly, just as good as the best out there.

He had one of if not the fastest 998's there and ran just the 290R production tune I installed for him last week in one of his machines. Only one other sled was side by side with him and he think it may have had a Link system in it, it was a machine RedCup racing brought and was tuned by Glenn. The point is, its a fast machine and it took out a Cat belt on the rough stuff, so its not as tough of a belt as you think it might be.

I dont know enough about belt technology to know if we are at limits of when belts snap. Maybe they are same? Or maybe not. But what we do know is, Cat since 2012 had worst rep for blowing belts, they kept coming out with new belts as I think they hoped a better belt would help their cause, since their clutches or TCL was not what they had hoped. So when their belt prices kept going up, I think most assumed their belts were being made tougher ect.....and the cat turbos went from belt blowers of 12, to what most guys on HCS were talking about belts no longer blowing. So as a whole, I believe CAT got better from 12 to 16. And after the 998, I never read more then a few belt blow threads.

I do realize there were a ton more winders sold. And therefore would be more action and vocal over here then HCS. But Its actually hard to find cat guys who have bad belt life, where its quite easy to find them here. Just an honest observation.

I just will never stick up for a sled that blows belts, even if Its not mine....its happening, and not just hype. I see a guy like Soupy and think wtf.....I like most guys, would have dumped that sled after 4 belts and take the loss.....So they are not perfect by any means.

Hoping the offset is the key, and everyone keeps saying when you run big power tunes with early spool, that offset becomes severely critical, where as at stock power levels its not nearly as critical. Sure would love to have more winter to get mine dialed. Will see how it goes.

 

[fatchance]

I think the problem lies in the fact that the general consensus had the best offset to be 61mm last year and that was fine with the stockers and early tunes, but now with the power turned way up the offset needs to be balls on with engine movement due to bigger torque involved and it's reared its ugly head. When i saw the wear on the shim behind the secondary i had my concerns the secondary wanted to run inwards more, but i was away on a trip and didn't feel like messing with it and i haven't been back to the sled since to f around with it.

 

[snowbeast]

Had anyone tried no washer behind secondary? Did the bearing clip do anything to the hub?

My sled came with no washer at all,and now after I have 2800 miles,no wear,i may now get the offset gauge from hurricane,and see if mine has to be moved in any more,i did blow one belt,and my clutches now run 170 primary,and belt,and 150 secondary,thats on WO run and stop to check,if I run hard fast trails for very long time,i fear much higher temps,and if pushing in soft conditions,they get hot.

 

[KnappAttack]

My sled came with no washer at all,and now after I have 2800 miles,no wear,i may now get the offset gauge from hurricane,and see if mine has to be moved in any more,i did blow one belt,and my clutches now run 170 primary,and belt,and 150 secondary,thats on WO run and stop to check,if I run hard fast trails for very long time,i fear much higher temps,and if pushing in soft conditions,they get hot.

That's right about where mine ran Pete prior to moving the driven in to a 58.8 offset taking out all shims. Now, I'm actually down to 120 on primary, 115 on belt and a crazy low 80 on the driven, which seems freakishly low.

 

[snowbeast]

That's right about where mine ran Pete prior to moving the driven in to a 58.8 offset taking out all shims. Now, I'm actually down to 120 on primary, 115 on belt and a crazy low 80 on the driven, which seems freakishly low.

Mike,that sounds incredible,wow. My last heat check with my lazer gauge,saw primary top near 175 middle of primary 145,belt 175 and secondary 145,with the secondary wound with ulmer red 4 coil spring,maybe an older cat spring,on the STM 42/36 at 9-1 wrap,why was my primary so much hotter? It was if I could hear belt slip,but no marks on either clutch.So mike it sounds like you took 2mm from secondary shaft? Did you get this gauge from Dave at hurricane? I just ordered it,it really is cheap change to see this kind of awesome results. Ya and them temps on your tune is from a very high HP tune what 280-290 Mike,just blows my mind that this kind of crazy HP can run a belt this cold lol keep us posted Brother.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I'm at 60.65mm without the washer.

 

[1nc 2000]

Mine was 61mm offset with no washer.
After machining and testing 59mm now.