Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

[ClutchMaster]

Its not suppose to compare to the 998cc,its to cover the 800cc/mountain sleds etc..

I thought it was supposed to be something out of this world?

how about a 4 stroke without a camshaft???its coming!!!

I know camshafts are soooo heavy we need to get rid of them. Let’s start with simple weight savings like swapping out steel parts with lightweight materials first.

 

[T-Bone]

Just had a sit down in person meeting with the Yamaha snowmobile Division /Yam-a-God’s today. They are definitely looking to push forward. They had many questions for me as being a multi line dealer and being a solid Snowmobile rider myself. They really wanted my input as a dealer and rider.

They asked many questions and here is just a few important ones.
What do Snowmobile riders want?

Units needed for the future of Snowmobiles.
Horse Power / speed.
Suspension/ Shock packages.
Handling.
Weight.
Power Steering.
Rider Comfort.
Adjustability.
Track options.
Ski’s.
Colors / style.
Storage/ Accessories.
Promotions/ Rebates.
Warranties.
Price.
and Etc.

This is my eyes is not a Company looking to surrender but cares about the Yamaha snowmobiler’s needs and wants to succeed in the future. I believe they are looking long and beyond AC/Textron’s involvement for future snowmobile sales.

Just my speculation!!

No offense, but if Yamaha is asking you, me or anybody else what they want in a sled, we (and they) are all in trouble. If Henry Ford had asked the consumer what they wanted, they would have said a better horse. Asking the consumer what they want is not how you innovate. Yamaha is pathetically lost.

 

[ClutchMaster]

No offense, but if Yamaha is asking you, me or anybody else what they want in a sled, we (and they) are all in trouble. If Henry Ford had asked the consumer what they wanted, they would have said a better horse. Asking the consumer what they want is not how you innovate. Yamaha is pathetically lost.

Relax T-bone,
I think times, well they are a chang’in since old Henry was around.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with asking someone who sells your product what people are after, in fact it probably isn’t done enough.
The past and present attitude of manufacturers “creating markets” hasn’t worked out too well for many. Unless there is some huge breakthrough in technology consumers don’t recognize, its best to poll your audience, that simple.
Harley Davidson made that mistake with the V-rod motor cycle. I talked to several corporate engineers and one response was, arrogant as usual,
“Harley Davidson doesn’t follow markets, we create them.”
Yea well at the time consumers were screaming for a Harley custom Chopper and big back tire.
Literally all they had to do was make a bike with a little more rake, single speedo gauge, no windshield and big back tire......give them less and charge them more.
They would have sold out faster than Shalira Taylor at a Trump convention.
Instead they sunk millions into a bike platform nobody wanted. Yea that worked out great for ya!

 

[T-Bone]

Relax T-bone,
I think times, well they are a chang’in since old Henry was around.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with asking someone who sells your product what people are after, in fact it probably isn’t done enough.
The past and present attitude of manufacturers “creating markets” hasn’t worked out too well for many. Unless there is some huge breakthrough in technology consumers don’t recognize, its best to poll your audience, that simple.
Harley Davidson made that mistake with the V-rod motor cycle. I talked to several corporate engineers and one response was, arrogant as usual,
“Harley Davidson doesn’t follow markets, we create them.”
Yea well at the time consumers were screaming for a Harley custom Chopper and big back tire.
Literally all they had to do was make a bike with a little more rake, single speedo gauge, no windshield and big back tire......give them less and charge them more.
They would have sold out faster than Shalira Taylor at a Trump convention.
Instead they sunk millions into a bike platform nobody wanted. Yea that worked out great for ya!

I think that is completely different. Harley owned a segment of the market with style of bike they produced. They went after a different segment of rider and the seemed surprised they didn’t flock to the new Harley. Harley left their lane in my opinion and expected similar results to what they experienced for decades with their customers and their classic Harley’s.

Yamaha used to be established and was number one in sales in the 70’s. Their methods and decision to go completely 4 stroke and ignore the consumer demand for two strokes since then has them around 3% market share. And they don’t even make the sleds, mainly just the engines.
It’s sad and laughable at the same time given where they were and where they are right now that they would need to ask a dealer what people want. That has never been more obvious in this industry. Yamaha just refuses to make the investment like the other manufactures have over the years to build the sleds.

I’ll believe it when I see it and I am through with the “wait until you see what we got coming” propaganda.

 

[Deeppow16]

I have a buddy that had an internship as an engineer at Arctic Cat over the summer and he told me that tensions were pretty high there between the new Textron guys and the original Arctic Cat guys. Dealers are closing up shop and that's not good. I feel if Yamaha doesn't do something on there own again then it might force them out of the biz. I feel Yamaha is in to deep with Cat and they need to start moving off on there own again. If Cat starts going down I don't want them to drag Yamaha down too.

 

[whitedust1]

I have a buddy that had an internship as an engineer at Arctic Cat over the summer and he told me that tensions were pretty high there between the new Textron guys and the original Arctic Cat guys. Dealers are closing up shop and that's not good. I feel if Yamaha doesn't do something on there own again then it might force them out of the biz. I feel Yamaha is in to deep with Cat and they need to start moving off on there own again. If Cat starts going down I don't want them to drag Yamaha down too.

I totally agree the end it or mend it timing is very soon between Textron and Yamaha. Yamaha still has most of their snowmobile distribution network in tack AC does not. Yamaha could easily purchase AC snow division but rumors are that Textron is not interested. Something has to change very soon or both brands will be done with no 2021 product line.

 

[Farmer 73]

You guys have to realize, and I hate to say this, Yamaha and Textron don't need a Snowmobile market to survive! They are both BIG corporate and have margins of profit per profit center they have to make to keep the bean counters happy. Polaris and Skidoo need the sled action for their dealers to have something to sell during the winter months. They our just not as diversified as Yamaha and Textron. That is my perception anyway.

 

[whitedust1]

You guys have to realize, and I hate to say this, Yamaha and Textron don't need a Snowmobile market to survive! They are both BIG corporate and have margins of profit per profit center they have to make to keep the bean counters happy. Polaris and Skidoo need the sled action for their dealers to have something to sell during the winter months. They our just not as diversified as Yamaha and Textron. That is my perception anyway.

I totally agree that neither Textron or Yamaha needs a snow division Yamaha may care more to continue to please their customers and dealers but Textron imo doesn’t care at all. Imo Textron is thinking about the most profitable way out of snowmobiles and why they are purging the AC snowmobile dealers. Yamaha could absorb and represent both brands or consolidate under the Yamaha brand name. Something has to happen soon and it’s puzzling Textron and Yamaha don’t swing a deal?

 

[Farmer 73]

I totally agree that neither Textron or Yamaha needs a snow division Yamaha may care more to continue to please their customers and dealers but Textron imo doesn’t care at all. Imo Textron is thinking about the most profitable way out of snowmobiles and why they are purging the AC snowmobile dealers. Yamaha could absorb and represent both brands or consolidate under the Yamaha brand name. Something has to happen soon and it’s puzzling Textron and Yamaha don’t swing a deal?

I talked to my Cub Cadette dealer, who is also a Cat dealer. He says they are hearing nothing from Cat about the future direction of the company. He, and he hopes he's wrong, feels that this is the end for Cat. I believe that there are still a few of the top brass in Yamaha that still likes sleds. So in my opinion the best thing Yamaha could do is buy the sled division and move them to their Georgia facility. When you think about it, at this point, how much is Cat's sled division worth? All Yamaha would be buying is the name and a few existing patents. I truly believe all Textron wanted out of Cat was their factory's, to build their own quads.

 

[20/80]

Yamaha is very very patient, a lot more patient than their snowmobile customers, Yamaha already has a very well thought out plan for the future and direction of their snowmobile division, make no mistake, mean while we will and can only speculate what the future holds over and over again.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Yamaha is very very patient, a lot more patient than their snowmobile customers, Yamaha already has a very well thought out plan for the future and direction of their snowmobile division, make no mistake, mean while we will and can only speculate what the future holds over and over again.

That’s frickin hilarious ^^^^
If the last three years were poor snow years for the lower 48 neither Cat or Yamaha would still be in the snowmobile business.
It’s just too unpredictable nowadays with global warming. Neither manufacturer plans on being in the snowmo business much longer, that’s obvious.
So much for your well thought out plan.

 

[20/80]

That’s frickin hilarious ^^^^
If the last three years were poor snow years for the lower 48 neither Cat or Yamaha would still be in the snowmobile business.
It’s just too unpredictable nowadays with global warming. Neither manufacturer plans on being in the snowmo business much longer, that’s obvious.
So much for your well thought out plan.

Do you actually really think that Yamaha is soul dependent and basing their future sled sales and business on what happens in the lower 48, now that is frickin hilarious.

 

[Farmer 73]

Do you actually really think that Yamaha is soul dependent and basing their future sled sales and business on what happens in the lower 48, now that is frickin hilarious.

Your right! They are not basing their future on what is happening in the lower 48, its world wide! They, like Textron, are a large global company. If there is a profit for one of their profit centers, "snowmobiles" for example, they will promote and build it for that part of the world to make money! It was not that long ago that they were pushing their scooter division in India because that was the fastest growing market! Look how many new sleds are being built each year, its been trending down. I hate the thought of it but why would they invest money in a market that is dwindling and not growing? I hate the bean counters but it is because of them that the company stays profitable!

 

[ClutchMaster]

Do you actually really think that Yamaha is soul dependent and basing their future sled sales and business on what happens in the lower 48, now that is frickin hilarious.

Actually it is extremely dependent on US sales, especially the high dollar, specialty models like the Sidewinder. Total sales in the Midwest and northeast exceeds all of Canada. Remember what happened when we had 4 low snow years in a row?

 

[stevewithOCD]

I would like to interject here if i may.
There are some excellent thought out posts here and i have some renewed respect for the caliber of my TY brethren.

First of all, the CEO of Yamaha has stated quite strongly that he loves snowmobiles & intends to be "part" of this sport for a long time.
Will that be engines only? Who cares. That's the only reason i buy a Yamaha in the first place.

This whole Textron, AC & Yamaha thing is quite the conundrum.
I hope they have some sort of plan and let us know soon because the unknown of the future of any of the three in the Sno Biz is certainly going to hurt future sales.

BOTTOM LINE: Yamaha needs to let us know soon!

No matter what the plan is; LET US KNOW!

SOON! Preferably before March when i put my money down on a new sled........