Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

[Motorhead]

I don’t see the market for 200 ponies when the public buys many NA Aces and 600s with the 160 to 180 hp 2s seem to satisfy most. Tunes can get you to 200hp for the 900t as well. For Yamaha go fast riders they never have enough Hp which is fine for them but no mass market appeal for others to address and develop. It’s all about the money and ROI for OEMs when it comes to engines R&D.

I am that non market type you are talking about.
By the way, 200 ponies is not enough for this older fellow and others I ride with.

Have modded most of my sleds since the early 70’s, and now with a simple tune and some clutch tuning, I can finally get all the power and speed That I want and Need. But I agree, most are like yourself and I am in the minority with the Winder. Very happy to finally be in that minority club...

You like your small hp sleds for reasons, and I like my overpowered sleds for other reasons!

So ride what you will and enjoy the sport being safe with whatever you choose to ride.

 

[74Nitro]

I don’t see the market for 200 ponies when the public buys many NA Aces and 600s with the 160 to 180 hp 2s seem to satisfy most. Tunes can get you to 200hp for the 900t as well. For Yamaha go fast riders they never have enough Hp which is fine for them but no mass market appeal for others to address and develop. It’s all about the money and ROI for OEMs when it comes to engines R&D.

Polaris and Doo riders don't have any options so they are stuck on a 170hp sled. I'd argue that if Polaris and Doo came out with a 200hp plus sled from the factory it would sell like hotcakes.
Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been.

 

[74Nitro]

Won't be that many years from now and someone will have 225-250 HP from the factory and 200HP will be the 'middle' class.

 

[yamadoo]

Yes likely true from a guy who started at 12 then 24 then about 50>>>>>>now 160 hp
Loved every jump and thought it was enough until I heard I could get MORE. LOL

 

[ClutchMaster]

Let’s face it...Big power is not for everyone.
Dam sissy’s

 

[whitedust1]

I am that non market type you are talking about.
By the way, 200 ponies is not enough for this older fellow and others I ride with.

Have modded most of my sleds since the early 70’s, and now with a simple tune and some clutch tuning, I can finally get all the power and speed That I want and Need. But I agree, most are like yourself and I am in the minority with the Winder. Very happy to finally be in that minority club...

You like your small hp sleds for reasons, and I like my overpowered sleds for other reasons!

So ride what you will and enjoy the sport being safe with whatever you choose to ride.

Yep I totally get where you are coming from been there done that but buds and I are now looking at hp vs affordability and 150 hp is plenty for us in WI and UPMI. Yamaha will stick with the SW and Viper probably sell more SWs as top seller until that market is completely saturated. Yamahas market share of 5-6% is untouchable in the SW niche but is that enough to keep them in the snow business?

 

[ClutchMaster]

Yep I totally get where you are coming from been there done that but buds and I are now looking at hp vs affordability and 150 hp is plenty for us in WI and UPMI. Yamaha will stick with the SW and Viper probably sell more SWs as top seller until that market is completely saturated. Yamahas market share of 5-6% is untouchable in the SW niche but is that enough to keep them in the snow business?

Market Share of 5~6 percent? Not sure what your smoking but I’m absolutely positive those numbers are way low.
As far as a geographical location being a factor, there are lakes and straight stretches everywhere. The UP of Michigan is a great place to own a Winder, if you can’t use big power there you don’t have the Stones to use it anywhere.
One of the biggest reasons these high HP sleds aren’t selling as well... most who own them are 45 and older. Younger riders don’t have the money for these sleds. As these sleds become available second hand at reduced prices you will see a surge in younger riders getting hooked on the big power, high excitement machines. It won’t be quite the revolution we had back in the 90’s with guys jumping from 600cc class to 800~1000cc class, but it’s going to happen.
Heck I can see that coming and I’m not even a professional bean counter. Wouldn’t worry to much about the market getting flooded.

 

[whitedust1]

Market Share of 5~6 percent? Not sure what your smoking but I’m absolutely positive those numbers are way low.
As far as a geographical location being a factor, there are lakes and straight stretches everywhere. The UP of Michigan is a great place to own a Winder, if you can’t use big power there you don’t have the Stones to use it anywhere.
One of the biggest reasons these high HP sleds aren’t selling as well... most who own them are 45 and older. Younger riders don’t have the money for these sleds. As these sleds become available second hand at reduced prices you will see a surge in younger riders getting hooked on the big power, high excitement machines. It won’t be quite the revolution we had back in the 90’s with guys jumping from 600cc class to 800~1000cc class, but it’s going to happen.
Heck I can see that coming and I’m not even a professional bean counter. Wouldn’t worry to much about the market getting flooded.

I do triple digits every ride with Apex and Enduro 900t so 200 + ponies is not necessary to go fast. I’ll go with whatever market % you like certainly Yamaha is not over 10%. I don’t think newbies will buy in on used go fast sleds most have big mileage and that scares off many people. 2s still rule the market not 4s weight has always been a problem. Textron has very low production of 2020 sleds for AC dealers so that leaves Yamaha unchallenged in the 2020 market for go fast riders. 2021 is the cut bait or fish for Yamaha and AC to continue selling sleds. Textron holds all the cards but is shutting down AC dealers don’t want them in their sales distribution. Now is the time to buy a SW that’s for sure! Both Yamaha and Textron are in crisis mode to continue on and will come to a head this winter for 2021 product line.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Yea I’m not doubting things could go south, not a lot of new riders out there and global warming is taking is toll in the US. It’s going to happen sooner than later.
Think I’ll go over to the SkiDoo website and troll around telling them how slow and unreliable their 850’s actually are.
Reminding them that half their season will probably be lost from a blown motor, so don’t hold it 2 the bar across the lake or on the grade.

Whitedust you have been nothing but a Buzzkill around here, just sayin.

 

[74Nitro]

Rewind two-three decades and the 500 class was the meat of the market and the Polaris 650's and Vmax 4's were the minority class. Everyone said, hey, a 500 is lots fast enough, I don't need the big power of a 650-750cc sled.
My oh my how times changed.
Do 500's even exist anymore.....?

 

[whitedust1]

Yea I’m not doubting things could go south, not a lot of new riders out there and global warming is taking is toll in the US. It’s going to happen sooner than later.
Think I’ll go over to the SkiDoo website and troll around telling them how slow and unreliable their 850’s actually are.
Reminding them that half their season will probably be lost from a blown motor, so don’t hold it 2 the bar across the lake or on the grade.

Whitedust you have been nothing but a Buzzkill around here, just sayin.

So true about 850s totally agree haven’t purchased a 2s since 2003 never will. I pay attention to the business side of anything I purchase and I don’t grind dealers I want them around to support me. If the current business situation is a downer at Textron and Yamaha then so be it. It can be corrected but someone needs to take charge of the ship and sail to safe harbor. Read latest Snow Tech they were very frank regarding the future of both AC and Yamaha very refreshing imo to see the business status in print. Call it a buzz kill if you wish but it is what it is currently and change has to happen.

 

[cannondale27]

Its a damn shame. More and more folks are coming around to 4st sleds now. Even Doo has to admit that. But its still way more 2 st sleds sold. I can understand it for the Off Trail and Snocross guys but for regular trail and play guys like the majority a 4 st just makes so much more sense. Hope Yamaha holds on for a bit longer and can make some $.

 

[rtx moose]

Less cylinders equal less power, nothing good can come from removing a cylinder. The current 998 and 1049 engines are awsome, don’t fukk with it if it’s already working (well maybe a camshaft change to increase rpm?)
Of course if they do introduce a twin cylinder turbo I’m sure they will come up with some BS fake news about its better than the older triple engine. What they won’t tell you is it’s 1/3 less costly to manufacture.
If they follow skidoo’s lead it will look more like a tractor engine than a performance machine.
Let’s hope not

Its not suppose to compare to the 998cc,its to cover the 800cc/mountain sleds etc..

 

[rtx moose]

how about a 4 stroke without a camshaft???its coming!!!

 

[rtx moose]

its going to be interesting to see what the new SNOSPORT is going to be like?i'm guessing it will be coming out next year?