Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

[theCATman]

Pound for pound of boost it’s got nothing on the Sidewinder and it’s got 100 more cc’s

Only 58 cc more, 1 less cylinder and 183 HP.

Sorry, but that now 10 year old tech is still quite impressive.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Phazer motor with 12,200rpms and 85hp with 500cc Na and under 500# is nothing to laugh at stock. Bump up the size and a Turbo it would be awesome. Just needs better front geometry lower cog.

It’s an apex motor cut in half^^^^^^
Big difference if it was a 1000cc two cylinder engine, it would make no where near that horsepower per cc.

Only 58 cc more, 1 less cylinder and 183 HP.

Sorry, but that now 10 year old tech is still quite impressive.

Ok so it’s only 58cc more, still bigger with a lot less horsepower. 183hp from a plus 1000cc engine on boost is not impressive. Some guys were getting that out of non turbo apex motors.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Now this is the type of motor we need yamaha to put into a sled......

 

[cannondale27]

Oh I hear ya although I still think the R1 crossplane sounds cooler but the reality is that majority of sled buyers want lighter weight than a 4 cylinder sled will ever have. Even the triple is pushing it Viper and when they added the turbo Sidewinder there is another bunch of people that felt the turbo put the weight factor over the edge off trail guys mostly.
Phazer is the only sub 500lb 4st sled ever made the 2st disposable sleds everyone is buying all are very close to that mark with lower cog and front and back balance. They are so easy to toss around. Look at the sacrifice many have made to get that feeling. They know they are going to be lucky to get 8000mi on the motor. They stink and use more oil and gas. But they still do it. That’s why I bought my 800. FUN so easy feels like cheating.Stock. But disposable. Maybe if the motor was actually integrated as a structure of the sled with bulkhead and exchanger actually being the cases of the motor we could have the 4cyl we all love and the sleds the majority love. But that would be a snowmobile only motor and Yamaha has went directly opposite of that.

 

[STAIN]

I had a Phazer GT that was a blast in the tight stuff. The suspension needed an upgrade and a little more power......

 

[theCATman]

Lol @ClutchMaster.

Whatever dude. Crunch the numbers. It comes out to .17 vs .20 hp/cc. Very negligible difference. But if it makes you feel better, the edge goes to the Yamaha.

And comparing a lower revving twin to a high rev 4 cylinder is asinine.

We all know Yamaha makes great engines, and if the newest incarnation is a forced induction medium to big cc twin, bring it on.

P.S. someone musta whooped your a$$ & taken your lunch money on a Z1 Turbo back in the day that you're so damn bitter about that engine.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Lmfao!!!
Yea it was a daily occurrence. Frickin guys with bright green Cat jackets jumped me daily.....I was a ski-doo guy back then. I bought a new Yamaha and matching jacket, then they got scared....wouldn’t race no more. Fu€k now they buy me lunch!

 

[ClutchMaster]

Lol @ClutchMaster.

Whatever dude. Crunch the numbers. It comes out to .17 vs .20 hp/cc. Very negligible difference. But if it makes you feel better, the edge goes to the Yamaha.

And comparing a lower revving twin to a high rev 4 cylinder is asinine.

We all know Yamaha makes great engines, and if the newest incarnation is a forced induction medium to big cc twin, bring it on.

P.S. someone musta whooped your a$$ & taken your lunch money on a Z1 Turbo back in the day that you're so damn bitter about that engine.

No it’s not really asinine at all. My point is smaller displacement per cylinder has a lot of advantages, one of them being more horsepower per cube, another big one is they are smoother, less vibration. Generally speaking they also have a wider rpm range of power and are less prone to detonation in boosted applications.

Compare the apex motor to the current viper 1049 N/A motor. It’s not even a comparison, the apex motor is by far and away more powerful and smooth. This is inherently due to the fact it has more cylinders, that’s my point.

IMO I would like to see them bring out a V4 800cc fire breathing dragon. High rpm 13k~14k rpm boosted monster. The V4 configuration would be narrow enough to fit into a narrow chassis with a lower center of gravity than a inline twin. Sure it might weigh 25lbs more than a twin but they could save weight like Polaris and use an aluminum driveshaft, along with other things.
Use the VMAX motorcycle engine as a primer......now that would be drumming up something out of this world.

 

[ClutchMaster]

http://www.aaenperformance.com/V4_racing_engine.asp

Put something like this into a sled......make it a four stroke so we can boost it easily and I’ll be the first one at the dealer.

Make a big twin cylinder to replace the existing triple.......no thanks I’ll keep what I’ve got.

 

[cannondale27]

No it’s not really asinine at all. My point is smaller displacement per cylinder has a lot of advantages, one of them being more horsepower per cube, another big one is they are smoother, less vibration. Generally speaking they also have a wider rpm range of power and are less prone to detonation in boosted applications.

Compare the apex motor to the current viper 1049 N/A motor. It’s not even a comparison, the apex motor is by far and away more powerful and smooth. This is inherently due to the fact it has more cylinders, that’s my point.

IMO I would like to see them bring out a V4 800cc fire breathing dragon. High rpm 13k~14k rpm boosted monster. The V4 configuration would be narrow enough to fit into a narrow chassis with a lower center of gravity than a inline twin. Sure it might weigh 25lbs more than a twin but they could save weight like Polaris and use an aluminum driveshaft, along with other things.
Use the VMAX motorcycle engine as a primer......now that would be drumming up something out of this world.

Now we are Talking!!

 

[theCATman]

I could get on board with a V4. And you talk about weight, it wouldn't have to be a liter engine either.

It could easily be in the 7-800cc range with a hair dryer.

 

[74Nitro]

I could get on board with a V4. And you talk about weight, it wouldn't have to be a liter engine either.

It could easily be in the 7-800cc range with a hair dryer.

And a v4 needs no balancer shaft.

 

[blueironranger]

The only new "sled" engine I could see it the Wolverine 847 twin. They could/would need to spin it another 2000-2500rpm faster and get 90-100hp out of it NA with a different cam, Factory Turbo MIGHT get it to 160hp. It would be the ACE 900 competitor. I'd think the whole package could be 20-30# lighter than the Winder engine and maybe shave more weight off a chassis since it's a lot narrower package. Say they could get the whole thing down to 499# on the lightest model, would it sell?

 

[74Nitro]

The only new "sled" engine I could see it the Wolverine 847 twin. They could/would need to spin it another 2000-2500rpm faster and get 90-100hp out of it NA with a different cam, Factory Turbo MIGHT get it to 160hp. It would be the ACE 900 competitor. I'd think the whole package could be 20-30# lighter than the Winder engine and maybe shave more weight off a chassis since it's a lot narrower package. Say they could get the whole thing down to 499# on the lightest model, would it sell?

Piston speed would be on the high side with that 80.2mm stroke. Even the much larger Z-1 had a shorter stroke at 70mm.
I can't see that this engine would ever be suitable for use in a sled.
Besides, the trend in power has been going up for decades, I don't see that changing anytime soon which means 200hp will probably become the most popular category. So instead of Yamaha focusing on bringing a lower power sled to market, it is more likely that the other manufacturers need to focus on bringing a higher power sled to market.

 

[whitedust1]

Piston speed would be on the high side with that 80.2mm stroke. Even the much larger Z-1 had a shorter stroke at 70mm.
I can't see that this engine would ever be suitable for use in a sled.
Besides, the trend in power has been going up for decades, I don't see that changing anytime soon which means 200hp will probably become the most popular category. So instead of Yamaha focusing on bringing a lower power sled to market, it is more likely that the other manufacturers need to focus on bringing a higher power sled to market.

I don’t see the market for 200 ponies when the public buys many NA Aces and 600s with the 160 to 180 hp 2s seem to satisfy most. Tunes can get you to 200hp for the 900t as well. For Yamaha go fast riders they never have enough Hp which is fine for them but no mass market appeal for others to address and develop. It’s all about the money and ROI for OEMs when it comes to engines R&D.