Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

[SumpBuster]

Not really true about the chassis, the SX Viper was awsome Chassis, it just needed correct valving in the rear shocks.

Also Pro Cross racing is totally different animal than trail riding. How many double jumps have you had to clear while trail riding?

On purpose? LOL!

 

[whitedust1]

Lots of brainstorming here which is good! I’m sure Yamaha has an OEM sales team that is in touch with Polaris and Skidoo as well as several boat companies as well. That’s what Yamaha does is makes and sells engines to OEMs. The problem with Polaris is they have no interest in 4s sleds ask any Polaris factory rep they don’t see 4s as a large profitable market they embrace their cookie cutter Indy 2s replaceable sled market. Customers like it too and are buying them. I find it difficult to believe Yamaha has a new tooled up Japanese sled chassis line good to go for 2021 which would be this Spring release. If Yamaha wants to continue TRF is the place for the 2021 lineup owned by Yamaha or Textron discontinues the AC line up and agrees to build chassis and assembly only Yamaha sleds for Yamaha. Currently reality is Textron has dismantled their sled dealer network by design. There is a reason Textron is doing this and logic is there will be one procross chassis line and will be Yamaha sleds.

 

[cannondale27]

Lots of brainstorming here which is good! I’m sure Yamaha has an OEM sales team that is in touch with Polaris and Skidoo as well as several boat companies as well. That’s what Yamaha does is makes and sells engines to OEMs. The problem with Polaris is they have no interest in 4s sleds ask any Polaris factory rep they don’t see 4s as a large profitable market they embrace their cookie cutter Indy 2s replaceable sled market. Customers like it too and are buying them. I find it difficult to believe Yamaha has a new tooled up Japanese sled chassis line good to go for 2021 which would be this Spring release. If Yamaha wants to continue TRF is the place for the 2021 lineup owned by Yamaha or Textron discontinues the AC line up and agrees to build chassis and assembly only Yamaha sleds for Yamaha. Currently reality is Textron has dismantled their sled dealer network by design. There is a reason Textron is doing this and logic is there will be one procross chassis line and will be Yamaha sleds.

I am fine with that just so the heart is a Yamaha and Yamaha warranty. The warranty gives a true indicator of where improvements need to be made via warranty work and I would hope the contract reflects that such as if 10% of x component fails it must be improved. Not sure existing contract with cat has that. Keep in mind Yamaha is the only big three that has its own long term warranty all others are subbed out so Yamaha has a direct stake in making these sled right since it directly takes $ from them to warranty. Hopefully leading to change.

 

[whitedust1]

I am fine with that just so the heart is a Yamaha and Yamaha warranty. The warranty gives a true indicator of where improvements need to be made via warranty work and I would hope the contract reflects that such as if 10% of x component fails it must be improved. Not sure existing contract with cat has that. Keep in mind Yamaha is the only big three that has its own long term warranty all others are subbed out so Yamaha has a direct stake in making these sled right since it directly takes $ from them to warranty. Hopefully leading to change.

If Yamaha can acquire TRF things will change for sure of that I have no doubt. The big question for me is why hasn’t the acquisition happened already? Imo the delay is with Textron to sell or contract build for Yamaha which is most profitable for Textron? The AC product line is as good as gone limited distribution that is being weaned off sleds very limited build for 2020 so dealers that are still alive have very little product to sell. Yamaha could revive AC represent both brands heck we already call them Yamacats. Lol.

 

[74Nitro]

On purpose? LOL!

I came over a small hill too fast last year and landed right at the bottom before the start of the next. I put some weight on my feet so it all wouldn't be absorbed through my back. My feet hurt for the rest of the day, and I slightly bent the running board cross members under my feet.
Too much throttle on unfamiliar trail!

 

[stevewithOCD]

Yes.. but my thoughts are that if a long time Yamaha snowmobile customer switches to another brand for their sleds than there is a good chance that all the Yamaha products that this former customer was using he may also switch if the new band he switched to has a great customer service and offers those products also, to me this is why Yamaha has teamed up with Cat to offer sleds with the Yamaha logo to keep its global customer base and to keep them buying Yamaha products, its the global customer base that keeps the sled division alive not the lower 48, IMHO if Textron was just to shut down their Cat brand sled division and stop producing the pro cross it would not stop Yamaha from producing sleds, make know mistake Yamaha has thought this scenario out, Yamaha would have pulled the plug on their sled division long ago and not offered anything in the form of any sled, fact of the matter is snowmobiles are important to Yamaha, Cat or Textron is not or will not be dictating or deciding the future for Yamaha sleds ever!

I've told this story before that proves this point.
My bud had sooo much success with his Apex that he bought a Yamaha FZ-1 motorcycle.
Then when shopping for a 300 hp boat motor, it came down between Yamaha and E-tec.
He paid $24,000 for the Yamaha motor which was about $2000 more then the E-tec. Best decision he's ever made.

This story shows how Yamaha wants to keep Yamaha guys.................Yamaha guys

 

[cannondale27]

Yup and they learned the hard way what happens when they put a non Yamaha motor in a Yamaha unit. That 700 from Subaru or whoever. Failures and once customers found out loss of sales.

 

[T-Bone]

Lots of brainstorming here which is good! I’m sure Yamaha has an OEM sales team that is in touch with Polaris and Skidoo as well as several boat companies as well. That’s what Yamaha does is makes and sells engines to OEMs. The problem with Polaris is they have no interest in 4s sleds ask any Polaris factory rep they don’t see 4s as a large profitable market they embrace their cookie cutter Indy 2s replaceable sled market. Customers like it too and are buying them. I find it difficult to believe Yamaha has a new tooled up Japanese sled chassis line good to go for 2021 which would be this Spring release. If Yamaha wants to continue TRF is the place for the 2021 lineup owned by Yamaha or Textron discontinues the AC line up and agrees to build chassis and assembly only Yamaha sleds for Yamaha. Currently reality is Textron has dismantled their sled dealer network by design. There is a reason Textron is doing this and logic is there will be one procross chassis line and will be Yamaha sleds.

Say what you will about the 2 stroke replaceable snowmobile market but both Polaris and Ski -doo have been dominating the sled market for over a decade now and making profits along the way providing what their customers want and innovating while we sit here at our keyboards wondering to what extent Yamaha is going to be in the snomo biz. Yamaha has made some good decisions over the years but many more bad ones. They make good engines but I have no faith they will ever make sleds again. Just takes them way too long to come to market with something new, then when they do, other take two more steps forward and they are already behind with their brand new machine. I think The mentality and stubbornness at Yamaha clearly holds them back from ever being a sled manufacture. Even if they were to by AC, they will have to design a new sled eventually and that stubbornness and mentality will creep in a kill it before it gets off the ground. All just an opinion of course.

 

[Yamajon1]

Say what you will about the 2 stroke replaceable snowmobile market but both Polaris and Ski -doo have been dominating the sled market for over a decade now and making profits along the way providing what their customers want and innovating while we sit here at our keyboards wondering to what extent Yamaha is going to be in the snomo biz. Yamaha has made some good decisions over the years but many more bad ones. They make good engines but I have no faith they will ever make sleds again. Just takes them way too long to come to market with something new, then when they do, other take two more steps forward and they are already behind with their brand new machine. I think The mentality and stubbornness at Yamaha clearly holds them back from ever being a sled manufacture. Even if they were to by AC, they will have to design a new sled eventually and that stubbornness and mentality will creep in a kill it before it gets off the ground. All just an opinion of course.

That might depend on if they were to retain any of the Arctic engineers who I would bet have been working on updates to the procross. This chassis has not had any major upgrades for a while now and yet it still competes well with the Ski- doo and Polaris which have both seen many changes. Some of which have made them more like the Procross such as Ski-doo’s “new” taller spindles to improve handling which the procross has had for years. All Yamaha would need to do is put a good chain case and drive axle in and update some electronics along with some quality control enhancements and a little Yamaha fit and finish and there you go. I do think they already know what there plans are and I’m sure they have been playing with there own designs but with a sport that’s not growing and who’s demographics keep getting older they may not see a reason to pursue it.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I'm not sure the Procross chassis needs to be replaced.
Improved & updated yes, but not replaced.
Look at motorcycles in the past 20 years. They hit a plateau with basic design and have tuned & tweaked them, but all have basically the same design for 20 years or more.

It's like Pam Anderson or Farrah Fawcett. There are many AS pretty, but none prettier.
They definitely need a new rear end to keep up though. Procross chassis that is.

P.S1: I'm talking Baywatch Pam, not the tattooed Hep-C Lipo Lipped Pam
P.S2: That Farrah poster started a revolution. Made me a man...............a lonely man

 

[cannondale27]

That might depend on if they were to retain any of the Arctic engineers who I would bet have been working on updates to the procross. This chassis has not had any major upgrades for a while now and yet it still competes well with the Ski- doo and Polaris which have both seen many changes. Some of which have made them more like the Procross such as Ski-doo’s “new” taller spindles to improve handling which the procross has had for years. All Yamaha would need to do is put a good chain case and drive axle in and update some electronics along with some quality control enhancements and a little Yamaha fit and finish and there you go. I do think they already know what there plans are and I’m sure they have been playing with there own designs but with a sport that’s not growing and who’s demographics keep getting older they may not see a reason to pursue it.

From what I understand is most of the original engineers are gone. Damn shame.

 

[whitedust1]

I'm not sure the Procross chassis needs to be replaced.
Improved & updated yes, but not replaced.
Look at motorcycles in the past 20 years. They hit a plateau with basic design and have tuned & tweaked them, but all have basically the same design for 20 years or more.

It's like Pam Anderson or Farrah Fawcett. There are many AS pretty, but none prettier.
They definitely need a new rear end to keep up though. Procross chassis that is.

P.S1: I'm talking Baywatch Pam, not the tattooed Hep-C Lipo Lipped Pam
P.S2: That Farrah poster started a revolution. Made me a man...............a lonely man

I’m sure Yamaha could improve the procross chassis even offer eps as an option for those that want eps. If the aftermarket can offer an eps kit Yamaha can design in. BUT none of this happens until a deal is inked with Textron. Imo watch and listen, learn all you can on the business side of Textron and Yamaha thats where the track meets the snow and the future of a Yamaha snow division.

 

[cannondale27]

I’m sure Yamaha could improve the procross chassis even offer eps as an option for those that want eps. If the aftermarket can offer an eps kit Yamaha can design in. BUT none of this happens until a deal is inked with Textron. Imo watch and listen, learn all you can on the business side of Textron and Yamaha thats where the track meets the snow and the future of a Yamaha snow division.

The way Cat is going sure seems to mirror what Yamaha did already business wise. It sure makes me wonder if Yamaha has control of Cat already. Either by ownership or contract. Think about it. Business $ wise it would make no sense for the Public or even the employees to know if a sale or control change is made. Legally here in US there is laws on the books allowing very tight secrecy in business sales even for publicly owned companies. Nobody I know has actually seen the contract between Cat and Yamaha. Just dont know. Eventually the Public not knowing is going to harm employee/dealer retention and sales enough that the direction of both will have to be made known. Must be getting close to that now. Cat side is really talking about it this year too.

 

[cannondale27]

The one thing us Yamaha powered Cat and Yamaha owners have as a advantage in this situation is that even as the miles rack on we do not have to sell since the major part of our sleds the engine will last a lifetime. The rest of sled will fail but most of those parts can be fixed affordably. Parts can be sourced used or made by us. Once we own a Yamaha powered machine we really dont need the factories to keep them going. That is a HUGE advantage in every way that 2 st guys do not have. We can wait it out and not lose our butts $ wise especially with all the help here at TY. Always said built by Yamaha and rebuilt by Team TY!

 

[SumpBuster]

I came over a small hill too fast last year and landed right at the bottom before the start of the next. I put some weight on my feet so it all wouldn't be absorbed through my back. My feet hurt for the rest of the day, and I slightly bent the running board cross members under my feet.
Too much throttle on unfamiliar trail!

I hear you! For those times, it's not a bad thing to have a proven snocross chassis. I hit a 2nd mogul, which was a tug hill classic monoshock killer g out, with the front and swore I must have broken something....me, or the apex. On the other hand, last year, another unexpected dip, around home, in a big field, going too fast in hindsight and the sidewinder took it with grace, but I bent the handlebars down....dam....and they were tight.....they are really tight now! lol