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Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

Yamaha needs both engines to compete. Its as simple as that. I'm one of those guys that have had both in the last few years and a 2 stroke is what works best for me but because Yamaha doesn't offer one I'm forced to go else where(Arctic Cat). I love Yamaha products and I wish I could ride a Yamaha sled but they don't offer one for my needs. Like Clutchmaster said, 2 stroke engines have come along ways to make them reliable. If I have to slap a new top end on at 4-5k miles then I will do that. All and all if you like to ride a 4 stroke good for you but if your like me that doesn't want a 4 stroke then your forced to spend your money somewhere else.
 

Deeppow16 said:
Yamaha needs both engines to compete. Its as simple as that. I'm one of those guys that have had both in the last few years and a 2 stroke is what works best for me but because Yamaha doesn't offer one I'm forced to go else where(Arctic Cat). I love Yamaha products and I wish I could ride a Yamaha sled but they don't offer one for my needs. Like Clutchmaster said, 2 stroke engines have come along ways to make them reliable. If I have to slap a new top end on at 4-5k miles then I will do that. All and all if you like to ride a 4 stroke good for you but if your like me that doesn't want a 4 stroke then your forced to spend your money somewhere else.
Click to expand...

This is so true, most of the time you don’t even need new pistons. I had close to 12k miles on my 600 on the original pistons and 17k on the original cylinders.
Current issues with 2 strokes are related to poor manufacturing practices and bad fuel IMO.
Totally preventable with manufacturing improvements and better knock control.
 
T-Bone said:
None of this is saying the SW is not a good sled. All of your friends and fellow riders could love them, but the facts are their sales numbers are minimal compared to 600 and 800 2-strokes. This is about Yamaha surviving as a snowmobile manufacture. You simply can not ignore 75% of the market and expect to compete. As much as you like your SW far more people vote with their pocketbooks and buy the competitions 2 strokes. Not because they are better but that’s what they want.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean, but my wife drives a Lexus. Is it a best seller? Far from it!! Yamaha does not need to be a top seller. I think the Japanese see things a little differently. That being said, sure, it would be nice to see Yamaha #1 in sales.
But like her Lexus, the sidewinder is an awesome sled!
And yes, they could build an awesome 2 stroke...if they wanted to.
 
I remember when Yamaha’s first 4 stroke main stream sled came out, it was the 03 RX1.

I had one and knew that this was one snowmobile engine that would not burn down. It was sold back then as being fast and dependable. Advertised as 4 lengths faster then an SRX in a certain distance, stock vs stock. I think it was 1/4 mile.
I tested that sucker for many years. There are places and days up north where 2 of us with RX1’s ran wide open, wide open, all day long !! Something you could not do with a 2 stroke, and that is for sure. Ask me how I know that...

People said that Yamaha was doomed back then with their heavy, rough riding, hard handling 4 strokes. They were 1/2 right. We wanted dependable, fast trail sleds, and that we got and still have. So get on your Doos and Poos and eat my dust guys!!!

Guess what? They are still here, 4 stroke and all, even if it is a Yamacat. It more then does the job.

Who knows what the future shall bring with Yamaha sleds, but for now, I’m hanging on tight.

This is the kind of guy that bought the fastest, most powerful stock manufactured snowmobile on earth in 2017.

What’s your sleds claim?
 
Motorhead said:
I remember when Yamaha’s first 4 stroke main stream sled came out, it was the 03 RX1.

I had one and knew that this was one snowmobile engine that would not burn down. It was sold back then as being fast and dependable. Advertised as 4 lengths faster then an SRX in a certain distance, stock vs stock. I think it was 1/4 mile.
I tested that sucker for many years. There are places and days up north where 2 of us with RX1’s ran wide open, wide open, all day long !! Something you could not do with a 2 stroke, and that is for sure. Ask me how I know that...

People said that Yamaha was doomed back then with their heavy, rough riding, hard handling 4 strokes. They were 1/2 right. We wanted dependable, fast trail sleds, and that we got and still have. So get on your Doos and Poos and eat my dust guys!!!

Guess what? They are still here, 4 stroke and all, even if it is a Yamacat. It more then does the job.

Who knows what the future shall bring with Yamaha sleds, but for now, I’m hanging on tight.

This is the kind of guy that bought the fastest, most powerful stock manufactured snowmobile on earth in 2017.

What’s your sleds claim?
Click to expand...
I bought 2, sight unseen, to replace my Doo mxz and machz. The handling and traction was certainly not great, but on Salmon River reservoir, 6.5 miles wide open, I smoked my old machz, with zero worries.....it just purred at 10 grand....the other guys were worried....lmao! Been 4 stroke yammy ever since.
 
ClutchMaster said:
Just wanted to say something about 2 strokes.

#1 they can be made reliable especially with today’s electronics and detonation control.

#2 the “Disposable” adjective, as many say they are, is just not true. The rings get worn and catch the ports causing failures. A simple maintenance of replacing the rings at around 8k miles would allow these engines to last longer.

This is not as much work as some would think. On the older easy engine access snowmobiles it only takes a couple of hours.
Click to expand...
Bull xxxx. I see absolutely stock 2st sleds go down in the first year of ownership every year. Some quit snowmobiling because of it. Can a 2st be made reliable? Yes but hasn’t been done yet to any that have any power to speak of.
 
A couple of things:

1. I sort of wonder if the experiences with outboard motor emissions had any bearing on Yamaha's 4 stroke strategy. It's a long and complex subject, but what I gathered is that one of the death knells in the demise of OMC back in the day was their failure to get ahead of emissions standards in a meaningful way. Once OMC had folded, Bombardier approached the engineers that had been working on DI tech at OMC, and it wasn't very long until they finished the job and released the E-Tec motor. This has been, of course, a massive profit driver for BRP in recent years, and I'll gloss over Polaris and Cat's work on 2 stroke, both for brevity and since I don't have a lot of context to add. Yamaha outboards, meanwhile, had been early to get on board with 4-stroke in a meaningful way, and now Yamaha 4 stroke outboards are a dominant worldwide product. Meanwhile over in the sled segment, Yamaha's move towards and then edging back from all-4-stroke products, well, you know how that has all went. A curious saga.

2. I saw an article about Cat doing some PR at Hay Days to the effect of claiming that they are releasing new sleds soon, and admitting that they had not done much PR. Anyone else note this, or did I just miss the thread?

3. Am I wrong to note that Yamaha does an absolutely piss poor job of PR for their sled strategy, and in general for their entire motorsports strategies? And that we rationalize and banter about it ad nauseum, with almost zero actual information right from the source, even at the dealer level, and regional rep levels? So that we're effectively just kind of imagining and pretending what Yamaha's strategies and vision might really be?
 
Stormbringer said:
How depressing is that, in 1996 there were 250,000 snowmobiles sold world wide with an American population at 265 million. Today with a US population of 340 million, only a 125,000 sleds sold world wide last year, with good snow conditions in the US. To me that is not promising for all sled manufacturers!
Click to expand...
It was right about that time the US govt. and other countries started scaring the heck out of manufacturers over emissions. Yamaha thought all 2 st would be gone soon but then the rules got relaxed and Yamahas gamble and effort to do right thing costed them market share. Same thing with Atv and Utv with weight and width limits. The Japs followed the rules and the others didn't and got laws changed.
 
Stormbringer said:
How depressing is that, in 1996 there were 250,000 snowmobiles sold world wide with an American population at 265 million. Today with a US population of 340 million, only a 125,000 sleds sold world wide last year, with good snow conditions in the US. To me that is not promising for all sled manufacturers!
Click to expand...

Stormbringer...I mean no disrespect to you but where have you been the last 10 years or so? The snowmobile market has been shrinking every year the last decade or so and for those of us that still enjoy this sport are darn fortunate to still have 4 OEM's providing us with awesome sleds to choose from.

Each OEM has faced the challenge in this shrinking market with their own plan. Some have thrived and others not so much. It's still a competitive marketplace but non of the OEM's want any of their competitors to leave. We need all 4 OEM's to survive and from what little I know they'll all be around to offer us new products in the future. I do know that Yamaha is a dedicated 4 season recreational motor company and has plans to stay the course in the snowmobile division for whatever it's worth.
 
cannondale27 said:
Bull xxxx. I see absolutely stock 2st sleds go down in the first year of ownership every year. Some quit snowmobiling because of it. Can a 2st be made reliable? Yes but hasn’t been done yet to any that have any power to speak of.
Click to expand...

Yea your right it’s total Bullxxxx.
:rofl:
 
jjmoneysauce said:
A couple of things:

1. I sort of wonder if the experiences with outboard motor emissions had any bearing on Yamaha's 4 stroke strategy. It's a long and complex subject, but what I gathered is that one of the death knells in the demise of OMC back in the day was their failure to get ahead of emissions standards in a meaningful way. Once OMC had folded, Bombardier approached the engineers that had been working on DI tech at OMC, and it wasn't very long until they finished the job and released the E-Tec motor. This has been, of course, a massive profit driver for BRP in recent years, and I'll gloss over Polaris and Cat's work on 2 stroke, both for brevity and since I don't have a lot of context to add. Yamaha outboards, meanwhile, had been early to get on board with 4-stroke in a meaningful way, and now Yamaha 4 stroke outboards are a dominant worldwide product. Meanwhile over in the sled segment, Yamaha's move towards and then edging back from all-4-stroke products, well, you know how that has all went. A curious saga.

2. I saw an article about Cat doing some PR at Hay Days to the effect of claiming that they are releasing new sleds soon, and admitting that they had not done much PR. Anyone else note this, or did I just miss the thread?

3. Am I wrong to note that Yamaha does an absolutely piss poor job of PR for their sled strategy, and in general for their entire motorsports strategies? And that we rationalize and banter about it ad nauseum, with almost zero actual information right from the source, even at the dealer level, and regional rep levels? So that we're effectively just kind of imagining and pretending what Yamaha's strategies and vision might really be?
Click to expand...

Yes on the emissions statement.
ALL snowmobiles were supposed to be below a certain emissions level point before certain dates.
There were, AND STILL ISN'T, any 2-strokes that could or can meet the requirements.
Yamaha went all 4-stroke to meet these standards.
Yamaha also didn't realize how Politicians could be bought off in this country.
Hence, they got caught with their pants down when they backed off on emissions.

They are now paying in the lowest sales of the 4, BUT they are still making a PROFIT!
If Yamaha makes $1 profit and keeps a guy in the Yamaha family, they did their job!
 
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