Relax! Yamaha is not lying Down.

[geez150]

Good point. Until the 1997 Polaris 700 twin. The then current snowmobile industry was powered by all foreign engines.

 

[20/80]

It’s true!
It’s called Brain Washing.
Germany was one of the worlds most intellectual countries of the day.
Just goes to show ya people aren’t always as smart as they lead themselves to believe.

Yes brain washing....Yamaha has been doing this for a few years now. lol

 

[MarkAttack]

Yes this is true and im not saying you are going to win over the hearts and minds of everyone at one time. But look at what Doo has done. They have stolen a mass majority of Cat, Poo and Yam owners. Poo is finally winning some ground back after the 900&755 that tanked their snowmobile business. Doo and Poo 850 owners are tired of sleds hatching like an egg and Cat 800 owners have either own issues. So I stand by what I said. Make a Yamaha 850cc 2stroke at 170hp that can truly live to 10,000 miles as well as a chassis that can and you will stand the industry on it's ear and steal back some of what Doo stole from Yamaha. Will it happen year one. No! It will take at least a year of real world tests and owners showing how good this new engine is and have little to no motors go down. Then you will slowly crawl out from under the rock. At this point you do the same with a new 600 and heck maybe get back into racing. At this point it's game on! I agree with the others about the average person does about 1000-1500 miles a year. I fall into that only due to lack of snow in my immediate area, I ride a 4stroke not because I put on a ton of miles, but because I don't want to worry about the motor while I own the sled. If I could get a lighter weight, better on fuel 850 that I knew would last me 10k I would buy it in a heartbeat. But I don't want a sled that it's motor is going to be a question mark at 4000+ miles or possibly sooner.

Here is a 760 Yamaha Triple 163 HP but needs mufflers...

The way I look at two strokes is a trade off between weight and long life.. If you want a light two stroke .. Just replace the needle bearings and rings at 5,000 miles.. I still think all these blow ups are from over heating or cheap oil ect..

Skidoo did not steal business from Yamaha .. Skidoo offered what the Customers wanted to purchase.. I have to laugh at Harley .. all they sell are big heavy Cumbersone over priced chrome plated Cruisers.. Back in the few years of Harley AMF they sold Two Stroke Enduros they even had a Motocross bike for two years.. they even had scooters.. All the Good bikes were made in Italy by the way and they just put Harley on the Tank but look how much more business it offered a dealer..

Now days what I see are Power Sports Dealers.. They sell about 4 Brands of Motorcycles.. 3 brands of Sleds. Boats and Personal Watercraft plus Trailers.. Much of the Power Sports business is Seasonal .

When there were 100 Brands of Snowmobiles they were being sold at Boat Dealers Chain Saw Dealers and Lawn and Garden Dealers ect..

I will say one thing for Polaris.. they always handled well.. Skidoos had a few week points over the years.

Again Yamaha has Motorcycles and Outboards. That brings in a lot more dealers to sell machines made mostly in the USA by Cat.. Don't know much about Texron but it's sort of Like Bombardier is . Bombardier makes Jets Trains and a few other things.. I think Bombardier bought the Engine Factory in Austrtia too that built some of the best Two Stroke Motorcycle engines.. "Rotax"

 

[super1c]

I like the comment of disposable sleds. But if you think about it we live in a disposable world. I for one will be buying new sleds every 5 years (length of warranty). I use to think I’ll buy a sled and keep it for 10 plus years but not anymore. The technology changes so fast That most sleds are obsolete within 5 yrs. I came off a old sx viper that I had modded and made to ride and handle awesome (and so I thought). First ride on a viper in 2015 and I bout a new one in 16 and 17. I will never wait to upgrade again. Anyone riding even a delta box sled is riding old tech and is missing out on a lot. I would love my Yamaha sled to be closer to 12,000 grand OTD and live with the fact I will be upgrading in 5 yrs. new sled, new tech. And I would love it even more if it were a lighter 2 stroke. The older I get the less I like moving these big heavy sleds. Getting stuck is a disaster for our group. Even moving it out of garage or adjusting on trailer is a pain. Then I pick up my buddies 144” assault and it’s a feather compared to mine. Is it as well built? I would say not as strong as Yamaha, it just rides and feels cheap when I use it. But he paid 5 grand less then I did and he rides just the same as me. For me a well built “disposable” light 2 stroke yamacat would be perfect. I got to tell ya the riot I demo’d this spring was pretty awesome! A nice Yamaha badged 2 stroke and some blue stickers would suit me just fine. If Yamaha buys arctic cat does that make it ok? Does in my book!

 

[MarkAttack]

I like the comment of disposable sleds. But if you think about it we live in a disposable world. I for one will be buying new sleds every 5 years (length of warranty). I use to think I’ll buy a sled and keep it for 10 plus years but not anymore. The technology changes so fast That most sleds are obsolete within 5 yrs. I came off a old sx viper that I had modded and made to ride and handle awesome (and so I thought). First ride on a viper in 2015 and I bout a new one in 16 and 17. I will never wait to upgrade again. Anyone riding even a delta box sled is riding old tech and is missing out on a lot. I would love my Yamaha sled to be closer to 12,000 grand OTD and live with the fact I will be upgrading in 5 yrs. new sled, new tech. And I would love it even more if it were a lighter 2 stroke. The older I get the less I like moving these big heavy sleds. Getting stuck is a disaster for our group. Even moving it out of garage or adjusting on trailer is a pain. Then I pick up my buddies 144” assault and it’s a feather compared to mine. Is it as well built? I would say not as strong as Yamaha, it just rides and feels cheap when I use it. But he paid 5 grand less then I did and he rides just the same as me. For me a well built “disposable” light 2 stroke yamacat would be perfect. I got to tell ya the riot I demo’d this spring was pretty awesome! A nice Yamaha badged 2 stroke and some blue stickers would suit me just fine. If Yamaha buys arctic cat does that make it ok? Does in my book!

I was going to say the same you said .. As there needs to be a choice both a light two stroke and Heavy Duty 4 strokes sort of like gas and Diesel pickups .. Gas engines have advanced a lot are lighter cost less and gasoline now is 30 cents per gallon or more cheaper than diesel .. a few years ago diesel cost less than gas .. that was a win win situation ..
http://fortune.com/2017/01/25/textron-arctic-cat-snowmobile/

By REUTERS
January 25, 2017
Textron Inc reported a 4.4 percent fall in quarterly profit, and said it would buy all-terrain vehicle maker Arctic Cat Inc for $247 million in cash as it looks to strengthen its specialized vehicles business amid slowing business jet sales.

I doubt that Arctic Cat is for sale as Textron just forked out $247 Million to purchase them .. The first thing that Textron did is start selling 4 wheelers with Textron Logos on them.. They didn't sell very wheel.. Some Arctic Cat Dealers tore of the Textron logos and stickers and Put Arctic Cat Stickers on them so they would sell .
Many Cat Customers are very Loyal to the Cat Brand . Textron sounds maybe like some Chinese Brand.. So now they are going back to using Arctic Cat Branding again and sales are up .. Yamaha , Honda , Kawasaki and Bombardier are very competative in the 4 wheel ORV market too .

Out board Motors are very Competitive too Honda 4 Strokes Yamaha ect.. The EPA all but banned Two Strokes .. but Evinrude with help from "I think a German Engineering CO" Developed a direct injection Two Stroke Outboard Motor.. them Bombardier bought them and they still make Evinrude branded outboard Motors.. Skidoo borrowed the outboard direct injection technology and came out with their E-Tech Motors..

 

[MarkAttack]

Didn't they Ban Two Strokes from Yellowstone a few years back ??

 

[20/80]

I like the comment of disposable sleds. But if you think about it we live in a disposable world. I for one will be buying new sleds every 5 years (length of warranty). I use to think I’ll buy a sled and keep it for 10 plus years but not anymore. The technology changes so fast That most sleds are obsolete within 5 yrs. I came off a old sx viper that I had modded and made to ride and handle awesome (and so I thought). First ride on a viper in 2015 and I bout a new one in 16 and 17. I will never wait to upgrade again. Anyone riding even a delta box sled is riding old tech and is missing out on a lot. I would love my Yamaha sled to be closer to 12,000 grand OTD and live with the fact I will be upgrading in 5 yrs. new sled, new tech. And I would love it even more if it were a lighter 2 stroke. The older I get the less I like moving these big heavy sleds. Getting stuck is a disaster for our group. Even moving it out of garage or adjusting on trailer is a pain. Then I pick up my buddies 144” assault and it’s a feather compared to mine. Is it as well built? I would say not as strong as Yamaha, it just rides and feels cheap when I use it. But he paid 5 grand less then I did and he rides just the same as me. For me a well built “disposable” light 2 stroke yamacat would be perfect. I got to tell ya the riot I demo’d this spring was pretty awesome! A nice Yamaha badged 2 stroke and some blue stickers would suit me just fine. If Yamaha buys arctic cat does that make it ok? Does in my book!

I Agree, if you are buying a new sled every 3-5 years then it does not really matter if you buy a 2 stroke, you will save money and go about the same distance as if you had bought a 4 stroke, 2 stroke owners are getting the mileage out of their sleds now a days without to much trouble except for a few bad apples in the barrel, why pay 18 grand+ for a new 4 stroke sled when you can pay 14 grand for a lighter 2 stroke and still go the distance and have warranty, there is one heck of a pile of old 2 strokes still running on the trails now a day's.

 

[yamadoo]

Yes brain washing....Yamaha has been doing this for a few years now. lol

All companies Brain wash it’s called marketing. Every company develops messages and images to get the customer (us) to believe we want their product in our case SLED.

No bashing intended just an observation. Arctic Cat, SkiDoo, Polaris as well as Yamaha are always trying to influence or “Brainwash” us.

 

[74Nitro]

What if The Cat and Doo Riders are as Brand Loyal as some of the Yamaha owners are on here? They won't change brands no matter what.. Very few sleds are used for hard core racing.. I head the Speed limit for sleds in Ontario is 50 KPH .. even on Lakes.. that's insane..
There was over 100 Brands of snowmobiles now there are 3.5
It costs Millions to develop a new Sled.. Cats weakness was quality .. and Yamaha's was weight and outdated suspension .. The Two worked together and came out with a "I assume " Durable lighter weight more reliable sled that handles well

Lol. Nobody is driving 50kms in Ontario. I have neighbours that are OPP, and they ride also, and certainly not 50kms. I even showed them my GPS of 116mph. ha
Occasionally there is radar on the trails, but it is just a $100 fine, with no points and it doesn't affect your insurance.

 

[Wannaviper]

I Agree, if you are buying a new sled every 3-5 years then it does not really matter if you buy a 2 stroke, you will save money and go about the same distance as if you had bought a 4 stroke, 2 stroke owners are getting the mileage out of their sleds now a days without to much trouble except for a few bad apples in the barrel, why pay 18 grand+ for a new 4 stroke sled when you can pay 14 grand for a lighter 2 stroke and still go the distance and have warranty, there is one heck of a pile of old 2 strokes still running on the trails now a day's.

Up where I ride, I do see a "pile" of old 2S's, but mostly on the "local trails" rather than the ITS trails, and I also see a "pile" of them being towed home on a regular basis. You can buy and sell them cheap in the local on-line classifieds, and sometimes you get what you pay for.

I average 2,000 miles a year, and this year was nearly 3,500 miles. I bought a 2019 Sidewinder and financed it for 3 years at 0% through Yamaha. At the end of the 3 years, I expect my SW to have 8-9,000 miles on it, and conservatively, I expect it will still be worth @$7,000+ in trade, or @$8,500+ in private sale. What would you give me for a 3 year old 2S Polaris or Ski Doo with 8-9,000 miles on it?

 

[SqueezeER]

Yamaha needs to build more than what current Yamaha riders want. They need to build what current Cat,Doo, and Poo riders want and do it better, in order to get them away from those brands. Bottom line build a 850cc 2 stroke with 170 hp that doesn't blow up and can realistically achieve 10,000 miles. Along with a good ride and handling chassis like a Cat, Doo, Poo and you will sell a ton. I enjoy my turbo but I think i'd buy a Yamaha made 850 smoker.

me too!

 

[MarkAttack]

If Yamaha is Serious about building Great Sleds.. They need to build a new Factory in North America in the Snow Belt.. Trump Dropped Corporate taxes by 15% that's a nice little boost to American Industry ..
They need to hire People who live and Breath Snowmobiles .. Arctic Cat has Engineers that are Avid Snowmobiles.

I don't have any insider information about the Cat Yamaha Marriage.. Are they better off married or Divorced.. Chevy , Pontiac , Buick , Oldsmobile , Cadillac , Were all American based Auto Manufactures.. They shared Engineering .. Parts Factories ect.. GM bought many Companies.. Delco .. Rochester Carbs.. AC Delco ,, Saginaw gear .. and now they are selling them off as Unions make them non comparative..

I watched a Video on the Cat Factory .. Very Impressive many Robots.. I think they said they can manufacture 350 sleds per day ..

I have a 2006 Attak .. I rode with guys who had a Supercharged Nytro and Apex one day .. They really were not much faster than me on straight away because their tracks were spinning so much .. and they could not keep up with me in the woods simply because my Buddy told me how to set my front end up .. and that was before I put in wider A-Arms and 10" wide Simmons skis.. Now I see the sled Barn sells a heavier sway bar..

Also I see a Yooo Toober with a new Sidewinder.. He said in 2,000 feet with a 240 HP tune he was doing 125 MPH and with 270 HP he was doing 135 MPH My Attak has done 116 on a lake with GPS 129 Dreamometer..

 

[MarkAttack]

All companies Brain wash it’s called marketing. Every company develops messages and images to get the customer (us) to believe we want their product in our case SLED.

No bashing intended just an observation. Arctic Cat, SkiDoo, Polaris as well as Yamaha are always trying to influence or “Brainwash” us.

You mean like this ?

I think these are great yes corny but great.. They do Compare they Yamaha against 30 years older Two Strokes that need Premix however..

 

[actionjack]

Just had a sit down in person meeting with the Yamaha snowmobile Division /Yam-a-God’s today. They are definitely looking to push forward. They had many questions for me as being a multi line dealer and being a solid Snowmobile rider myself. They really wanted my input as a dealer and rider.

They asked many questions and here is just a few important ones.
What do Snowmobile riders want?

Units needed for the future of Snowmobiles.
Horse Power / speed.
Suspension/ Shock packages.
Handling.
Weight.
Power Steering.
Rider Comfort.
Adjustability.
Track options.
Ski’s.
Colors / style.
Storage/ Accessories.
Promotions/ Rebates.
Warranties.
Price.
and Etc.

This is my eyes is not a Company looking to surrender but cares about the Yamaha snowmobiler’s needs and wants to succeed in the future. I believe they are looking long and beyond AC/Textron’s involvement for future snowmobile sales.

Just my speculation!!

Question
Was this conversation a sidebar to some other agenda or was it a specific directed snowmobile division improvement discussion?
Are other dealers being asked the same set of questions?

 

[MarkAttack]

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.....

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