Sidewinder gearing for trail.

[ClutchMaster]

Sure would like to see it. Is the grey coating on it yet? If not maybe we are all being premature in changing them?

I think you should try a new chain Cdale.

 

[cannondale27]

I think you should try a new chain Cdale.

I will say it again. I have the exact same wear every year no matter the tension and also with brand new chain and gears. Grey coating is almost half gone. Thats .003in taper in bushing. I have a very expensive 25t top gear in mine last 3 seasons. Its only 14 wide. Would like to go 15 wide like you did and also have oil holes. Nervous of drilling the holes.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I will say it again. I have the exact same wear every year no matter the tension and also with brand new chain and gears. Grey coating is almost half gone. Thats .003in taper in bushing. I have a very expensive 25t top gear in mine last 3 seasons. Its only 14 wide. Would like to go 15 wide like you did and also have oil holes. Nervous of drilling the holes.

Didn’t say anything about tension, the only difference is I replaced my chain. Just trying to help.

 

[74Nitro]

I am not concerned with top speed. I dont spend any time up there. I want to to pull like a freight train to over 100 mph.
I also think that taking some turn out of the chain might help some with top gear bushing wear.

The stock gearing in my sled was 24/50 which is far from top speed gearing. Run that.

 

[74Nitro]

Let's not turn this thread into another top bushing debate.

 

[yamamarc]

I am not concerned with top speed. I dont spend any time up there. I want to to pull like a freight train to over 100 mph.
I also think that taking some turn out of the chain might help some with top gear bushing wear.

I run stock 24/50 and it's fun in the trails but I would like to gear it a little lower for a bit more snap!

 

[STAIN]

I don't think you are going to get any lower than 24/50. That was stock gearing in the Viper LTX. When I turbo'ed my Viper I geared up as not to blow the track out on the bottom.
I may go with 24/48. Get everything new.....

 

[cannondale27]

Let's not turn this thread into another top bushing debate.

I agree but the oil holes and width of gears are definitely a consideration when choosing gear ratio. I have run 25/45 w 9 tooth introverts for last 3 seasons on my NA Viper and love it.

 

[fullshift]

Sure would like to see it. Is the grey coating on it yet? If not maybe we are all being premature in changing them?

I don't think so. I started to notice a vibration in my right foot when I would get up to 90 mph and higher. I had this before on other sleds. It was either some bearing gone or belt (some center cogs gone) or I put secondary back together not aligning balancing marks. Everything look good so thought maybe my sec0ndary was put together wrong. Thinking the vibration was on the right side something on that side was the problem. My secondary is an STM so no alignment marks. I was trying clutch in different positions going for rides to get rid this vibration. Then my new 22 top gear finally came in(1702-395 back ordered). I only changed the top gear and my vibration was gone. The old 21 top gear had about 1100 miles.

 

[JPS]

I did nothing but gain on all when I went with 22T verses the 21T. I first tried the 22 after my first tune but I did run the tune with the 21T first. Just smoother and faster with my set up back then and now, with the Max Spool 16/3 bar/BOV.

Maybe a different story if I was running on ice and hooking up hard out of the hole and running shorter distances.

just trying to follow, you are saying good results with 22t over 21t with Max spool16?

 

[Motorhead]

just trying to follow, you are saying good results with 22t over 21t with Max spool16?

Yep 22T works best for me when compared to 21T.

This is what I found. Had my first tune which was the TD eco-tune and ran that with stock gearing at first. Sled would pull to 114 on speedo really quick and then tick off 1 mph at a time afterwards. Installed the 22T with same eco-tune and nothing else changed, sled would run to 117 on speedo really quick and then tick off 1 mph more at a time. Also much smoother pull. Could also see the diff against my buddies sled. Added Max Spool 16 and never went back to the 21T.
Screwed around with different helix and primary clutching. Stock ramps with added weight and the Dalton 35-39 reverse helix is where I am at now. This tune loves 8950-9000 and I like low engagement of 2650-2850. Just sweet and cheap. I am sure that had I spent more on proper primary spring for the Dalton QAY and secondary spring to match I could have got the same, but money was tight with my being a new retiree and waiting for pension checks to start flowing in.

120 on speedo is easily attained on any groomed trail snow conditions. Did let it run up to 126 speedo a bunch of times last season once I settled on my cheap clutching. Another season means more testing coming!!

 

[Motorhead]

Yep 22T works best for me when compared to 21T.

This is what I found. Had my first tune which was the TD eco-tune and ran that with stock gearing at first. Sled would pull to 114 on speedo really quick and then tick off 1 mph at a time afterwards. Installed the 22T with same eco-tune and nothing else changed, sled would run to 117 on speedo really quick and then tick off 1 mph more at a time. Also much smoother pull. Could also see the diff against my buddies sled. Added Max Spool 16 and never went back to the 21T.
Screwed around with different helix and primary clutching. Stock ramps with added weight and the Dalton 35-39 reverse helix is where I am at now. This tune loves 8950-9000 and I like low engagement of 2650-2850. Just sweet and cheap. I am sure that had I spent more on proper primary spring for the Dalton QAY and secondary spring to match I could have got the same, but money was tight with my being a new retiree and waiting for pension checks to start flowing in.

120 on speedo is easily attained on any groomed trail snow conditions. Did let it run up to 126 speedo a bunch of times last season once I settled on my cheap clutching. Another season means more testing coming!!

Should note that many have told me that I would gain some top end if I went back to the Dalton primary ramps.

 

[Byam]

I don't think you are going to get any lower than 24/50. That was stock gearing in the Viper LTX. When I turbo'ed my Viper I geared up as not to blow the track out on the bottom.
I may go with 24/48. Get everything new.....

My viperT was 24/48 whit 92P ... The chain was making a pretty big "S "on his route! I think you would be better whit 90P chain.

 

[ClutchMaster]

I run stock 24/50 and it's fun in the trails but I would like to gear it a little lower for a bit more snap!

With a tuned Winder that gearing is already way low. Unless you have 100% traction and a very aggressive clutch setup it’s probably slower on the trails.

 

[Turboflash]

X2 Clutchmaster. These turbos love pulling against load. To a point, the more load, the faster it spools (the quicker the boost comes up). The quicker it spools, the faster the HP comes up and the harder the sled accelerates. Another point could be compared to a car with manual transmission. When we're in a low gear, it's easier to spin the tires. Then, shift up to a higher gear and it's harder to spin the tires. It's about torque to the wheels. In lower gears, there's more torque multiplication. In higher gears, there's less and the tires don's spin as much. Similarly, in snowmobiles gearing too low (24 x 50?) allows track to spin more due to more torque transfer. With the right higher gearing, the track will spin less as the gearing tries to spin the track at a higher speed (taller gear) which reduces torque to track.

To your point, I do suppose IF there is 100% traction (not possible) and really aggressive clutching, the difference corner-to-corner with low gearing (24/50) vs. higher gearing would be minimized, albeit at a sacrifice to top end for sure.

IMO, if you want more "snap" corner-to-corner, work on traction and weight transfer, along with super-aggressive clutching, along with weight reduction, along with HP increase. When racers test 60' times, there's a point where lower gearing actually hurts not helps. So, they spend allot of testing time testing ratios to find the right one for their HP, weight, chassis, etc.

For my fast trail riding, with my sled and setup, my 30-100 MPH was much faster with taller gearing (vs. stock gearing). No substitute for testing hours out on the lake with a good radar gun and stop watch. I wish I had a "G-force gage" to confirm what my seat-of-the-pants, GPS, and stopwatch tells me.