The Arcitc Cat Float suspension thread

[LSXM3]

please do as i am starting with this swap here soon, only thing im going 146" so ill have to set back just a bit further

 

[natedawgedog]

thank you nikolai, that would be a big help!

 

[beeze455]

I bought a bare 2006 M7 Chassis just to do the measurements. I was able to put a board in the tunnel and drill holes in the board where the stock locations are. These numbers are correct for a 2006 M7 and from my understanding the mounting locations have not changed.

Cog center to front a-arm center is 9.5"
Front a-arm to upper hole on rear bracket is 31" lower is just shy.
Cog to upper hole on rear brack is 40.5"

I then placed this template in the nytro. Now this is not exact because what angle should these points be at? What I did is drew a line on the bottom running board of the nytro. So the cog for the m on my template and the line on the running board was lined up.

Front A-arm is 9 1/4" down from the top of the tunnel. The mount looks like it is 1.5" back exactly from the stock hole and a small hole is already drilled there. The hole is

The rear is 11 1/4" down from the top and 31" back from the front mount.

 

[beeze455]

I should also state that I do not plan on any setback. I am going to mount this skid exactly like the M has and use big wheels with and offset axel. The wheels look sweet!

 

[Maddog]

Looking at a AC 153" skid. Should I ditch the floats and go with conventional shocks? also does anyone have the actual mounting points for trasnplant into a 2010 153" MTX with undertunnel exhaust? Thanks

 

[Off Trail Mike]

I bought a bare 2006 M7 Chassis just to do the measurements. I was able to put a board in the tunnel and drill holes in the board where the stock locations are. These numbers are correct for a 2006 M7 and from my understanding the mounting locations have not changed.

Cog center to front a-arm center is 9.5"
Front a-arm to upper hole on rear bracket is 31" lower is just shy.
Cog to upper hole on rear brack is 40.5"

I then placed this template in the nytro. Now this is not exact because what angle should these points be at? What I did is drew a line on the bottom running board of the nytro. So the cog for the m on my template and the line on the running board was lined up.

Front A-arm is 9 1/4" down from the top of the tunnel. The mount looks like it is 1.5" back exactly from the stock hole and a small hole is already drilled there. The hole is

The rear is 11 1/4" down from the top and 31" back from the front mount.

Beeze:

Do you know if the 2006 M7 ran an 8 tooth or 7 tooth sprocket stock? Because yami's use a 7 tooth stock and AC usually used 8, the AC skid location in the Nytro will not have the exact same hole locations as the M. Shouldn't be very much....likely mostly a vertical position differrence in the tunnel more than anything else.

Just curious.

I think I am putting the Cat 141 in my XTX. Got alot of measuring to do first....and finding rails as mine are cracked! Trying to avoid the ratcheting problem too!

OTM

 

[beeze455]

Beeze:

Do you know if the 2006 M7 ran an 8 tooth or 7 tooth sprocket stock? Because yami's use a 7 tooth stock and AC usually used 8, the AC skid location in the Nytro will not have the exact same hole locations as the M. Shouldn't be very much....likely mostly a vertical position differrence in the tunnel more than anything else.

Just curious.

I think I am putting the Cat 141 in my XTX. Got alot of measuring to do first....and finding rails as mine are cracked! Trying to avoid the ratcheting problem too!

OTM

The 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009 XTX has 9 tooth drivers. I also have 9 tooth drivers.

All of the M's use extro 8 tooth from 06 to right now. The CF also used these same 8 tooth drivers. The CFR and Crossfire models used 10 tooth drivers.

Why will the mount points be different? People swap drivers all the time and dont change skid locations? Wondering what your reasoning is so I can read up on that. I do not think cat changed the mounting locations for the skid into the tunnel through the years or different for different models.

 

[Off Trail Mike]

Beeze:

My bad on this one...I was referring to the MTX drive and not XTX.

The issue is all skids are positioned relateve to the diameter of the front drive wheel and the ground and yes, drive diameter does make a difference in skid placement. Basically the drive diameter needs to align with the bent up section of the rails. So the approach angle of the rails is also part of the equation.

Here's the differences between sleds:
XTX: 9 tooth, 2.52 pitch and a drive diameter of 7.22 inches
XF/M: 8 tooth, 3.00 pitch and a drive diameter of 7.63 inches
MTX: 7 tooth, 3.00 pitch ad a drive diameter of 6.68 inches

If the positioning of the skid is not taken into consideration (retlative to the drive wheels) then the rail tips will either protrude into the line of the track, which can cause a track stab, or wear your rail tips. If your suspension is set back to far (relative to the drive) it will steepen the approach angle, which promotes trenching.

On your question of changing drivers, you are absolutely correct, you can change drive sprocket sizes and not reposition the skid, but its always a compromise, and normally requires changes to your limiter straps to get everything to work.

Think of it this way. If you changed to a smaller driver, and kept your skid in the same place, you'd have to shorten your limiter strap to get the track to approach the rails correctly. This will increase the ski pressure AND increase approach angle. It will work, but its not an ideal compromise.

I guess my point is that most sledders don't realize how sensitive their sleds are to ski pressure/skid placement. An 1/8" vertical change makes a big difference. I never thought of it much until I started playing with AC skid postioning with a weight scale on the skis. That's when you see it.

OTM

 

[beeze455]

Beeze:

My bad on this one...I was referring to the MTX drive and not XTX.

The issue is all skids are positioned relateve to the diameter of the front drive wheel and the ground and yes, drive diameter does make a difference in skid placement. Basically the drive diameter needs to align with the bent up section of the rails. So the approach angle of the rails is also part of the equation.

Here's the differences between sleds:
XTX: 9 tooth, 2.52 pitch and a drive diameter of 7.22 inches
XF/M: 8 tooth, 3.00 pitch and a drive diameter of 7.63 inches
MTX: 7 tooth, 3.00 pitch ad a drive diameter of 6.68 inches

If the positioning of the skid is not taken into consideration (retlative to the drive wheels) then the rail tips will either protrude into the line of the track, which can cause a track stab, or wear your rail tips. If your suspension is set back to far (relative to the drive) it will steepen the approach angle, which promotes trenching.

On your question of changing drivers, you are absolutely correct, you can change drive sprocket sizes and not reposition the skid, but its always a compromise, and normally requires changes to your limiter straps to get everything to work.

Think of it this way. If you changed to a smaller driver, and kept your skid in the same place, you'd have to shorten your limiter strap to get the track to approach the rails correctly. This will increase the ski pressure AND increase approach angle. It will work, but its not an ideal compromise.

I guess my point is that most sledders don't realize how sensitive their sleds are to ski pressure/skid placement. An 1/8" vertical change makes a big difference. I never thought of it much until I started playing with AC skid postioning with a weight scale on the skis. That's when you see it.

OTM

The crossfire has the same skid location and 10 tooth drivers though. The CFR also use 10 tooth drivers and have the same skid location.

 

[LSXM3]

Does anyone here have a starting place for me to try? I am running the 141" skid with 7 tooth 2.86" drivers and a 146" track!

 

[Nikolai]

Ill be home Saturday and can pull measurements.

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

I really don't mean this in a rude way at all, but I am just wondering why there is so much thought going into all of this? Is it because you guys are running the XTX and things are way different?

I just know that I simply moved my mounting holes exactly proportionate to the difference in the two skids when I mounted mine and I have been very pleased with how mine works. Scmurs rode mine also last year and had positive things to say.

Again I am not trying to knock at all just wondering.

 

[beeze455]

I really don't mean this in a rude way at all, but I am just wondering why there is so much thought going into all of this? Is it because you guys are running the XTX and things are way different?

I just know that I simply moved my mounting holes exactly proportionate to the difference in the two skids when I mounted mine and I have been very pleased with how mine works. Scmurs rode mine also last year and had positive things to say.

Again I am not trying to knock at all just wondering.

I can only respond personally. When I first decided to do this somebody said it was bolt on perfect. Clearly wrong. I then adjusted it three times based on the skid. Clearly wrong. I then heard items like pressure this pressure that, get extros, tabs on your track, too much power, too loose, worn cogs, cogs hitting rail tips, track hitting tunnel, track offline. track slapping tunnel and etc. Clearly wrong. I bought an M bare chassis and found my setup was way off.

Me and others are disussing. Why? Because we are always trying to improve. What are your measurements hugger70mtnmax? it would really help us!

 

[NUKNUK]

I got a 2007 m8 162 skid with a challenger track I'm looking to put in my 2008 mtx.

I've read thru this thread but I'm still not sure so I've got some questions hopefully someone can have some insight on.

1. Do I need to drill new mounting holes in the tunnel? And if so where abouts?

2. Can I use the stock mtx drivers with this skid and track?

3. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Thank You

 

[natedawgedog]

I really don't mean this in a rude way at all, but I am just wondering why there is so much thought going into all of this? Is it because you guys are running the XTX and things are way different?

I just know that I simply moved my mounting holes exactly proportionate to the difference in the two skids when I mounted mine and I have been very pleased with how mine works. Scmurs rode mine also last year and had positive things to say.

Again I am not trying to knock at all just wondering.

for me I want to get this right the first time, I have a 1 year old son and just found out we are having another child on the way so I dont get endless hours to work in my shop to be able to find things out like approch angles, distance between track and tunnel, shock lengths/differences, center to center differences and alot of other variables that go into getting a suspension setup to work as good or hopefully better than stock. after reading all of the work that these guys did and posted up there findings (which I appreciate very much) to how they work and dont work, it saves me alot of time to be with my expanding family and their needs.

how many other threads in the whole forum do you see on here that have as much info as this ONE thread in it?
dont you get tired of reading. which skis are better this one or that one, or which track length do you prefer? or my sled wont start what to do? or can this exhaust work? or many of the other threads in here that people would be able to find out if they just used the search button.

how about engaging in the thread, and helping people other riders out with your sweet setup? not every one on here knows what "simply moved my mounting holes exactly proportionate to the difference in the two skids" means... I dont have a spare crossfire or m sled to get those measurements.