DoktorC
TY 4 Stroke Master
My flap is the stiffy...but the other two guys that do long distance are the older style...
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I just noticed that Yamahammer485's sled with the same issue is also an 07 - with the new, stiff snowflap.
The videos seem to be of 06's.
The videos seem to be of 06's.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
DoktorC said:
Missed your post.
Have you done much water with the stiff flap installed?
Do you have it angled outwards much or more down?
Mine really points down. The back of the flap is only something like 1-2 inches back relative to the very top of the flap.
I found on hard ice conditions that my hyfax cooled much better with the flap down so I slightly bent the flap support. Now that I'm running Doo wheels in the front locations I probably don't need it down this much - I just left it this way since backing up in snow is a pain no matter what (unless I bend the mount way up).
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
The flap can DEFINITELY be the cause of the problem with the Yam's.... if the water stays in the tunnel, it may get forced through the holes in the front around the exhaust pipes. Anyone serious about running through water should consider sealing it up around the exhaust pipes with fiberglass and high-temp silicon.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
LazyBastard said:
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the flap is what pushed my sled over the edge.
Still, those of you running water with an Apex without sealing up the exhaust holes are probably living on the edge. It probably wouldn't take much to get a little too much water through the exhaust holes and end up sinking your sled.
Probably the easiest way to make these sleds work reliably on water would be cut some sheet metal to fit with a fairly small gap around the pipes and rivet it to the tunnel to hold it in place. At the same time, run a short flexible snowflap and make sure it is angled outwards by quite a bit.
If I find myself riding on wet or slushy trails again, I'll try bending the flap outwards and see how it changes things. You still won't find me doing any long, deep water stretches - especially after my experience yesterday. These things stop and sink very fast when they loose power! The feeling is similar to riding in extremely deep powder snow and letting go of the throttle, except it sinks to the bottom...
DoktorC
TY 4 Stroke Master
ReX said:
Mine is raised and angle back (from wheelies) so it's probably "optimized" for water crossing. The longest stretch I've done is only about 5-600' but it wasn't a problem...
Mikecam
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
My flap is also pointed way back and I have had no trouble running water, 200 feet or more a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmZ_8K0GzO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmZ_8K0GzO0
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Just for the record, my snow flap is bent out (due to wheelies) and it is cut short.
Just also want to mention that I made a plate to go behind the secondary that completely close off the space between the engine and the exhaust. Like this plate will not allot any water near the secondary, but yet, it still slips, and when it slips, it redlines. I have it on video repeated times, and with the bender (when it didnt break), you could hear it redline!!
So the option now is to either completely close off the motor compartment by plate, or to find out how its getting in.
Just want to throw this out here again. I used to run water 3000+ feet without problem, but now it slips the belt with no other changes, and with squeaky clean clutches.
Also, first Time crossing water of the day, IT WILL NOT SLIP, I PROMISE!, but the times after that, it will, and the time after that, it will slip continously easier. My theory is that the hot exhaust steams the water off the first few times, but then after that, not so much.
And I know this is happening because when I ran water so much that it would slip anytime near water, it died a few times after slipping. Its like cold water shock to an engine to make it stall out, same thing with quads. This means that enough water is getting through those holes to make it stall!!
Just also want to mention that I made a plate to go behind the secondary that completely close off the space between the engine and the exhaust. Like this plate will not allot any water near the secondary, but yet, it still slips, and when it slips, it redlines. I have it on video repeated times, and with the bender (when it didnt break), you could hear it redline!!
So the option now is to either completely close off the motor compartment by plate, or to find out how its getting in.
Just want to throw this out here again. I used to run water 3000+ feet without problem, but now it slips the belt with no other changes, and with squeaky clean clutches.
Also, first Time crossing water of the day, IT WILL NOT SLIP, I PROMISE!, but the times after that, it will, and the time after that, it will slip continously easier. My theory is that the hot exhaust steams the water off the first few times, but then after that, not so much.
And I know this is happening because when I ran water so much that it would slip anytime near water, it died a few times after slipping. Its like cold water shock to an engine to make it stall out, same thing with quads. This means that enough water is getting through those holes to make it stall!!
sledheadgeorge
TY 4 Stroke God
full open distance about 3/4 of a mile. Never had any belt slip issues. Have a set of C&A's i think they are AD model. Old style flap and stock ripsaw.ReX said:
Maybe the stock skis spray more and the stiff rear flap could definatly be the culprit.
apexrtx006
Veteran
i scared the living hell outta my self today i was playing around in flooded ditches and it thought i was going to flip back wards and my sled will bounce off the rev limiter if i put my skis in the water and pin it once the track hits water it will bounce a few times then quit longes i went today was about 100 feet.... engine breaking is scary on water back end will flop all over
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Just an update
The flap thing does nothing, as in the belt still slips.
Ran a set of narrows over the weekend with the flap stuck in my bumper (see attached pic), and there is absolutley no difference. Even when the flap has no effect on water as it isnt even touching it.
Looks like this is entirely an exhaust hole problem.
The flap thing does nothing, as in the belt still slips.
Ran a set of narrows over the weekend with the flap stuck in my bumper (see attached pic), and there is absolutley no difference. Even when the flap has no effect on water as it isnt even touching it.
Looks like this is entirely an exhaust hole problem.
When the slipping happened to me, I should have stopped right away and removed the top and side panels to see if indeed a bunch of water had hit the clutches but I didn'[t 
. Have any of you done this to confirm the fact water is getting in? Could there be another problem here? Perhaps water is running up the tunnel and when it comes back down it is moving with the track and causes the track itself to lose traction and to slip in the water? I have heard of this kind of "cavitiation" in mountain sleds in deep powder.
. Have any of you done this to confirm the fact water is getting in? Could there be another problem here? Perhaps water is running up the tunnel and when it comes back down it is moving with the track and causes the track itself to lose traction and to slip in the water? I have heard of this kind of "cavitiation" in mountain sleds in deep powder.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
bigdog1000 said:When the slipping happened to me, I should have stopped right away and removed the top and side panels to see if indeed a bunch of water had hit the clutches but I didn'[t
In fact I have done this repeatedly, just to see the wet spots to see where the water comes in. The foam gets all wet by the secondary and the primary department is all dry (i sealed mine up)
With the flap up, crossing that channel, the belt slipped, so I let off, then got back on the gas, and it just kept redlining. So essentially, if it was long enough, I would have sunk. I was crossing at about 150kmh so the track slipping is very unlikely.
Also, the faster you cross water at with the apex, the more the belt slips, as is the case after running the channel.
Interestingly, it never used to be this bad when the sled was new, and this is definate as I routinely ran almost 1km of open water with no problems and no sealing.
Im almost thinking that the clutches might be starting to be not aligned anymore and this with the water might be causing this problem.
sledheadgeorge
TY 4 Stroke God
Yamahammer485 said:
Have thought about this for a while. Check your suspension. Go over your rear skid and your front arms and see if anything is wore out or broken. A buddy of mine had a similare issue once.
Apex18
Expert
I don't think the mudflap will make any difference, because when i was skimming water the other day i looked back and the muflap was sticking straight back from the force of the water. And i also experience some belt slipage when i was running long stretches with 6-8 inches of water on top of the ice before the ice lifted, it was like skimming water for miles, and after awhile my belt started to slip, causing me to almost stop. I took the side panel after i made it to shore, had a look, and sure enough it was wet in there, with lots of belt dust. Jord
