XS 825 Belt

[THEPASMAN]

Do the apex primary’s use the same roller as the winder. Also would the winder primary work on a apex. The reason I ask is I have an apex that I use for fishing and pulling a sleigh. Very light duty use. So I guess what I’m asking is can I just trade weight on the clutch’s and go

The info on this site is incredible

Thanks Brent

 

[KnappAttack]

Do the apex primary’s use the same roller as the winder. Also would the winder primary work on a apex. The reason I ask is I have an apex that I use for fishing and pulling a sleigh. Very light duty use. So I guess what I’m asking is can I just trade weight on the clutch’s and go

The info on this site is incredible

Thanks Brent

Yes, same rollers.
The will interchange, but the offset does change. My RX-1 clutch sits about 1.4mm further out, so in my case I was able to put my circlip back on the behind the secondary.

As for weights, I can swap back and forth with no change in weight, but my winder primary was binding and IMO took more weight to make it work because of the binding. Without adjustable weights it could be hit or miss for RPM.

 

[THEPASMAN]

Great thanks
Same puller for both clutches I hope

 

[sideshowBob]

Great thanks
Same puller for both clutches I hope

Same puller for all the Yamaha primary clutches on all models from the 1995 Vmax4s to the current model Side Winders.
Typically you would add a 2 to 4 grams to each weight when transferring them from a Sidewinder primary to an Apex or RX1 primary to maintain the same RPM.

 

[sledding rocks]

That is not a happy setup! That is just too much pinch and heat buildup rearing its ugly head.

I too ran heavy setups in the past with the Winder primary and could find no consistency, but now that I'm using the RX-1 primary, the sled is perfectly happy using the stock yellow or the lighter finish Dalton B/O. I do like to crank that B/O up to around 90* however to get it close to the finish of the stock yellow Winder spring.

I believe the binding Winder primary was to blame for the need of the heavier secondary springs and heavy primary weight. Now I have the RX-1 clutch on that does not bind, I have no need for the much heavier secondary springs and massive weight in the primary. I can even run the 8JP again without blowing it up!

Put the stock secondary on with the stock 35 helix, the Dalton B/O at 90* or the Dalton tan at 50* and you will be much happier. Set the primary to work with either of those and it will be happy.

Honestly, there is no need for a pro4 or different secondary at all, it's not going to do anything better than the stock secondary does. The primary, now that's a different story. The winder primary should be recalled and the old Yamaha primary put on in it's place. It is a weak and inferior piece![/QUOT
this is a great recommendation works for me with the Tapp , 8jp belt

 

[DMCTurbo]

Yes, same rollers.
The will interchange, but the offset does change. My RX-1 clutch sits about 1.4mm further out, so in my case I was able to put my circlip back on the behind the secondary.

As for weights, I can swap back and forth with no change in weight, but my winder primary was binding and IMO took more weight to make it work because of the binding. Without adjustable weights it could be hit or miss for RPM.

What binds in the Primary?

 

[justinator]

Same puller for all the Yamaha primary clutches on all models from the 1995 Vmax4s to the current model Side Winders.
Typically you would add a 2 to 4 grams to each weight when transferring them from a Sidewinder primary to an Apex or RX1 primary to maintain the same RPM.

What is the reason for typically requiring more weight with apex clutch vs sidewinder clutch?

 

[fatchance]

What binds in the Primary?

Moveable just doesn't want to slide.

 

[ISLANDRACING]

Moveable just doesn't want to slide.

Wouldnt the TP 911 cover address this issue or at least help? The bushing is almost twice as big as the bushing on the stock cover.

 

[KnappAttack]

What binds in the Primary?

I'm guessing the post has grown on it. The movable does not like to slide like it should. I haven't really looked at it, just threw it on the bench because the RX-1 clutch is working so well. lakercr's Winder primary literally broke/cracked the post on it and I suspect the China metal to be weak and expanding, thereby binding up on the movable bushing, or the thing is so warped and bent, it just does not want to move on the buttons.

Wouldnt the TP 911 cover address this issue or at least help? The bushing is almost twice as big as the bushing on the stock cover.

No. The issue is not on the cover end of the shaft.

 

[sideshowBob]

What is the reason for typically requiring more weight with apex clutch vs sidewinder clutch?

The weights in the Sidewinder clutch sit further out from the clutch center in comparison to the Apex clutch. Because the weights are further out the centrifugal force created by the weight is greater for any given rpm.
In other words the same fly weight acts heavier[more force] in the Sidewinder Clutch then the Apex clutch.

 

[justinator]

The weights in the Sidewinder clutch sit further out from the clutch center in comparison to the Apex clutch. Because the weights are further out the centrifugal force created by the weight is greater for any given rpm.
In other words the same fly weight acts heavier[more force] in the Sidewinder Clutch then the Apex clutch.

Got it, thanks!

 

[1nc 2000]

Do you think the added extra initial torque on the primary clutch bolt has anything to do with the binding of the clutch? The heavier torque spec was added after they were released the 17's.

 

[sideshowBob]

Do you think the added extra initial torque on the primary clutch bolt has anything to do with the binding of the clutch? The heavier torque spec was added after they were released the 17's.

I don't know but every time I torque down the Winder primary it feels like the bolt is about to twist off.
For awhile now, I have been wondering if the SW clutch really needs more torque then Apex clutches did as its the same taper and the Apex clutch at 88 ft lbs handled 300hp plus turbo or Super charged hp without an issue.

 

[KnappAttack]

The weights in the Sidewinder clutch sit further out from the clutch center in comparison to the Apex clutch. Because the weights are further out the centrifugal force created by the weight is greater for any given rpm.
In other words the same fly weight acts heavier[more force] in the Sidewinder Clutch then the Apex clutch.

This is technically correct. The weights and rollers sit 3mm further from the shaft on the Winder primary. I found I could run the exact same weight in either clutch this winter however. Maybe the winder clutch I've been running binds that much that it needs the added weight to overcome the binding, I don't know.

The Winder primary would eat rollers, the old RX-1 clutch would not. The Winder primary was also slower in ET and speed vs. the RX-1 primary.