Yamaha Cutting Production for 2019

[20/80]

My hope is that Yamaha is waiting for Arctic Cat to be sold and then buy them. This gives them manufacturing in North America (cheaper than building in Japan) and distribution/dealer network.

One canwish.

Yamaha has already moved its head office to Toronto Canada closer to the snow belt, If Yamaha was interested in Cat they would have purchased them before Textron, Yamaha will sell them engines instead, Yamaha has something else in the works in the sled division, Textron also has its own idea's for Cat, hopefully for Cat history doesn't repeat itself with Textron, like back in the late 70s early 80s when Textron owned Polaris and tried to break up Polaris and sell it off, it would be a great loss to the snowmobile industry if Textron did this with Cat snowmobile division.....history shows that Textron just doesn't care.

 

[Farmer 73]

Yamaha has already moved its head office to Toronto Canada closer to the snow belt, If Yamaha was interested in Cat they would have purchased them before Textron, Yamaha will sell them engines instead, Yamaha has something else in the works in the sled division, Textron also has its own idea's for Cat, hopefully for Cat history doesn't repeat itself with Textron, like back in the late 70s early 80s when Textron owned Polaris and tried to break up Polaris and sell it off, it would be a great loss to the snowmobile industry if Textron did this with Cat snowmobile division.....history shows that Textron just doesn't care.

Well then we have to ask, does Yamaha CARE???

 

[Deeppow16]

Funny.......I always gave props to skidoo. After watching them closely, skidoo has found a way to convince the guy who just bought a '17 that it is junk. And the new for '18 model will make him a happier rider. Even thou it's just a graphics change or changed the plastics a bit. And the riders suck on it like nothing I've ever seen b4. Lol!

I think yamaha needs to adapt this way of thinking. To keep things fresh. Who knows......

This is funny because I was thinking the same thing. One thing I notice from DOO is that they always have these crazy colors to pick from. People are naturally drawn to crazy looking things. So I would bet DOO designers have taken that into account. Yamaha on the other hand doesn't really do that much. They stick with the same colors and just change the stickers around year to year.

 

[Deeppow16]

Why do we always need a new chassis? I think they've all done about as much as possible.....how many different positions can you mount shocks to a tub of aluminum, carbon fiber, steel? Shocks outside the tunnel, shocks inside the tunnel. Calibration of a well made chassis is more important than just another newer, lighter, cracking piece of aluminum. Shocks tipped forward, tipped back, tall a arms...I've ridden older sleds that work better than brand new ones! Calibration!!! Nothing new under the sun.
Unless the typical snowmobile itself undergoes a drastic change, it's a shell game.

I would like to see a new chassis design or a major update to the chassis every 5 years or so. I think the main reason they are always changing something is because the other MFG's are saying how much better their sled handles compared to the competition and that makes people turn there heads towards there product. So the MFG's need to always be making changings to keep peoples attention on there products.

 

[SumpBuster]

I would like to see a new chassis design or a major update to the chassis every 5 years or so. I think the main reason they are always changing something is because the other MFG's are saying how much better their sled handles compared to the competition and that makes people turn there heads towards there product. So the MFG's need to always be making changings to keep peoples attention on there products.

That is true, but I have some Johnny Skeptical genes..lol....for example, drove a new lexus rx350 while our 8 year old es was in for the airbag. Other than the kiddy stuff electro gizmos, it didn't ride, handle, outperform a 10 year old suv, when that was new. And I really dont need 19 speed transmissions...lol (not sure how many it has..not buying one)
Same with sleds. Just put 17 miles on the sw, on our 1 mile (road course) test track, and it's nice...smooth, quiet, powerful, but the sled dynamics are not anything I haven't felt before. I need to tune it to my liking., as it steers hard, especially compares to the curves with slim jims on the apex. Latest greatest tuner 3 skis just don't excite me. Sorry engineers...Old design curves are far better. For me. But I will adjust everything adjustable, to make sure.

 

[Sevey]

A new updated (better) chassis every few years would be awesome, but Oem's likely cant afford to spend the engineering time, design, testing time/cost, and re-tool production of a new chassis these days without at least a 7-8 yr production run. Especially with sleds where overall number of sales is relatively small. Look at the auto business how long Honda and Toyota have production runs on Accords and Camrays - and they are building hundreds of thousands of them.

I have always suspected the arrangement with Cat was a streamlining effort for Yamaha to get a way from producing so many separate costly chassis designs. All other oem's have embraced it except for them. The only thing I am still surprised at is they didn't revamp the product line faster. The Apex has hung in there, as well as the phazer etc.

I would have thought they would have condensed things much faster.
MS

 

[20/80]

Well then we have to ask, does Yamaha CARE???

I think so, they now have a new head office closer to the snow belt for testing, hired some big names in the snowmobile industry to help with design, offered a totally new high tech engine design for a snowmobile, also helped a competitor in the snowmobile industry with better fit and finish and supplied them with engines to boot, they did all this for their customers with a promise ..that you haven't seen anything yet, ..yeah.. I would say they care.

 

[T-Bone]

I think so, they now have a new head office closer to the snow belt for testing, hired some big names in the snowmobile industry to help with design, offered a totally new high tech engine design for a snowmobile, also helped a competitor in the snowmobile industry with better fit and finish and supplied them with engines to boot, they did all this for their customers with a promise ..that you haven't seen anything yet, ..yeah.. I would say they care.

I think Yamaha cares too. But I don't know if that's the right question. I think a decision Yamaha Executives made over 15 years ago has taken them to last place in market share. If they had been completely right about four strokes being the future in snowmobiles, and that's all that was being produced by all four manufactures, then Yamaha would have a much larger market share today. But that's not what happened. Tw0 strokes survived and honestly thrived to represent roughly 75% of all sleds sold today. You can not ignore 75% of your potential customers and succeed. The second that a customer decides they are willing to live with the short comings of a two stroke sled (75% of them), Yamaha is out of the game.

Until Yamaha admits they made a mistake and commits to making the best two strokes in the business (like their four strokes), we are going to be stuck in this "we aren't selling enough sleds to warrant the investment in new sleds so we are going to stick with what we have and promise big things are coming" mentality.

 

[20/80]

I think Yamaha cares too. But I don't know if that's the right question. I think a decision Yamaha Executives made over 15 years ago has taken them to last place in market share. If they had been completely right about four strokes being the future in snowmobiles, and that's all that was being produced by all four manufactures, then Yamaha would have a much larger market share today. But that's not what happened. Tw0 strokes survived and honestly thrived to represent roughly 75% of all sleds sold today. You can not ignore 75% of your potential customers and succeed. The second that a customer decides they are willing to live with the short comings of a two stroke sled (75% of them), Yamaha is out of the game.

Until Yamaha admits they made a mistake and commits to making the best two strokes in the business (like their four strokes), we are going to be stuck in this "we aren't selling enough sleds to warrant the investment in new sleds so we are going to stick with what we have and promise big things are coming" mentality.

Yes two strokes have survived but they have not passed that barrier that keeps them reliable after 5000 miles or 300 hours on their engine in most cases without getting their top end freshened up or total engine replacement, I think this is where Yamaha thrives with their four strokes and was selling that concept of reliability when four strokes first showed up, I believe that Yamaha in the future is dedicated to some major four stroke technology in snowmobiles, I think this is what Ski Doo is trying to accomplish with their new 850 design but they probably have a few short blocks on the shelf next to the 800s just in case, as Ski-doo and Polaris prices increase i'm not convinced that their reliability has increased past the 300 hour barrier on their engines but they are pricing them like they are.

 

[Wannaviper]

The durability, reliability and longevity of the four strokes resonates with older riders like me; I buy a sled expecting to keep it for several years, and many thousands of miles. Spending $10-15,000 for a two stroke that needs an engine overhaul every 2-3 years simply does not appeal to me. However, I don't think Skidoo is looking at my demographic, the social security set. I think they are looking at the younger and more aggressive riders who want the "latest and greatest," fastest, lightest, most high tech, with the wildest colors and graphics. They are going to trade in their sleds every one to two years, because they can't live without the sled that is all over the front pages of the snowmobile magazines. They don't care about durability and longevity, because it won't be their problem. One of the reasons I am now a die hard Yamaha fan is that they made the commitment to four strokes; all my toys have Yamaha four stroke engines.

 

[Turbo 998]

The durability, reliability and longevity of the four strokes resonates with older riders like me; I buy a sled expecting to keep it for several years, and many thousands of miles. Spending $10-15,000 for a two stroke that needs an engine overhaul every 2-3 years simply does not appeal to me. However, I don't think Skidoo is looking at my demographic, the social security set. I think they are looking at the younger and more aggressive riders who want the "latest and greatest," fastest, lightest, most high tech, with the wildest colors and graphics. They are going to trade in their sleds every one to two years, because they can't live without the sled that is all over the front pages of the snowmobile magazines. They don't care about durability and longevity, because it won't be their problem. One of the reasons I am now a die hard Yamaha fan is that they made the commitment to four strokes; all my toys have Yamaha four stroke engines.

I agree!! Mine do also Yamaha F 150 outboard, Yamaha Grizzly 550, Sidewinder LTX LE.

 

[T-Bone]

Yes two strokes have survived but they have not passed that barrier that keeps them reliable after 5000 miles or 300 hours on their engine in most cases without getting their top end freshened up or total engine replacement, I think this is where Yamaha thrives with their four strokes and was selling that concept of reliability when four strokes first showed up, I believe that Yamaha in the future is dedicated to some major four stroke technology in snowmobiles, I think this is what Ski Doo is trying to accomplish with their new 850 design but they probably have a few short blocks on the shelf next to the 800s just in case, as Ski-doo and Polaris prices increase i'm not convinced that their reliability has increased past the 300 hour barrier on their engines but they are pricing them like they are.

I agree with you about the two stroke longevity barrier although I have friends that have passed that threshold several times including with older Yamahas. Even with that barrier existing, the vast majority of sled buyers buy two strikes for some reason or another. Yamaha is missing out on sales from that portion of the market and that has really slowed their four stroke development process. That really stinks for those of us wanting a new (140-160 hp) all Yamaha four stroke.

If Yamaha had continued developing two strokes like Ski-Doo, Arctic Cat, and Polaris, they would have never needed the AC deal.

I look forward to the four stroke technology advancement you mentioned. Hopefully it's in a complete package and not just something that gets bolted to existing sleds or dropped into an aging AC chassis.

Trails open here in WNY on Wednesday and with over 2 feet of snow in many areas, looks like the season is getting off to a great start.

 

[T-Bone]

The durability, reliability and longevity of the four strokes resonates with older riders like me; I buy a sled expecting to keep it for several years, and many thousands of miles. Spending $10-15,000 for a two stroke that needs an engine overhaul every 2-3 years simply does not appeal to me. However, I don't think Skidoo is looking at my demographic, the social security set. I think they are looking at the younger and more aggressive riders who want the "latest and greatest," fastest, lightest, most high tech, with the wildest colors and graphics. They are going to trade in their sleds every one to two years, because they can't live without the sled that is all over the front pages of the snowmobile magazines. They don't care about durability and longevity, because it won't be their problem. One of the reasons I am now a die hard Yamaha fan is that they made the commitment to four strokes; all my toys have Yamaha four stroke engines.

I too am a die hard Yamaha fan and nearing that same demographic! But with the size of Yamaha, they had then and have now the ability to develop both four strokes and two strokes. I would choose the four stroke variety but would love to have the sales of two strokes help with development of improved four strokes.

 

[SumpBuster]

The durability, reliability and longevity of the four strokes resonates with older riders like me; I buy a sled expecting to keep it for several years, and many thousands of miles. Spending $10-15,000 for a two stroke that needs an engine overhaul every 2-3 years simply does not appeal to me. However, I don't think Skidoo is looking at my demographic, the social security set. I think they are looking at the younger and more aggressive riders who want the "latest and greatest," fastest, lightest, most high tech, with the wildest colors and graphics. They are going to trade in their sleds every one to two years, because they can't live without the sled that is all over the front pages of the snowmobile magazines. They don't care about durability and longevity, because it won't be their problem. One of the reasons I am now a die hard Yamaha fan is that they made the commitment to four strokes; all my toys have Yamaha four stroke engines.

I signed up for social security last may, after another season of passing so many of these latest and greatest sleds every time we go! (everyone I ride with is younger than me by decades..lol..but when you ride 10,000 miles on a skiroule, you appreciate how great the sleds are today.)
Maybe it's they don't think an apex is going to be on their bumper at 80, trying to find a safe way past, or maybe the aerodynamics is too much at 80 for the standuppers!! Lol!! There's nothing like harassing the lightest sleds out there with a yamatank! Love it! Except g outs. They huuurt!! The sw should take care of that..!

 

[Pstn head]

I'm hearing more and more riders saying "you know what my next sled will be a four stroke " young an old people. At almost every stop, a few guys saying that. Usually after they ask, how it is riding a four stroke? In a lot of cases it's those riders we come onto and pass ( safely of course.) Then they go onto to saying "ya it's sounds pretty good not worrying about oil and rebuilds" and continue with, I hardly get my sled stuck and don't have to pick it up anyways, and I add, Yup I don't carry my sled I ride it.