Yamaha only built 3,000 sleds in 2010?

[kinger]

Anybody guess what they make on each sled?

Lets say they made 10,000 sleds and sold them all, I cant imagine they make $2000-3000 each sled but lets say $3000 that is $3million profit in a company with annual sales of $5 billion.

I have no idea why they even continue to stay around.

 

[Maxout01]

Anybody guess what they make on each sled?

Lets say they made 10,000 sleds and sold them all, I cant imagine they make $2000-3000 each sled but lets say $3000 that is $3million profit in a company with annual sales of $5 billion.

I have no idea why they even continue to stay around.

Now you see why I'm thinking the way i am. We could lose our sport entirely pretty easily in the not so distant future.

And your statement is why I originally say some posts back that to me yamaha being interested in building sleds in the near future doesnt make sense when they have so many other avenues they make lots of dough off of.

If I was running a company I would want to put 100% time into the most profitable sectors and totally drop the ones that take more time and money to develop and sell then they end up being worth in the longer haul.
Its the basics of big business.

 

[SSX600]

But I would assume that Yamaha snowmobile is tied into all thing recreational ie. motorcycles, atv,boats, personnel watercraft and as a buisness whole you need to be in all things recreational so the people that have a yamaha motorcycle will stay brand loyal and buy a yamaha snowmoblie and so on. Yamaha builds a GREAT product and with the economy the way it is its only smart buisness not to sit on a bunch of inventory.

 

[Maxout01]

But I would assume that Yamaha snowmobile is tied into all thing recreational ie. motorcycles, atv,boats, personnel watercraft and as a buisness whole you need to be in all things recreational so the people that have a yamaha motorcycle will stay brand loyal and buy a yamaha snowmoblie and so on. Yamaha builds a GREAT product and with the economy the way it is its only smart buisness not to sit on a bunch of inventory.

exactly so what that means is yamaha doesnt really need the sled division (i dont blame them) and means consumers get less for more $$ when buying in that division from yamaha. Eventually meaning other manufacturers will need to make less foward steps to sell thier units.

Also that greatly reduces pressures on the competition to stay ahead which means skidoo for example doesn't have to care as much about keeping ahead of yamahas, they will be selling more units either way.

When a small sport like ours loses any like this and becomes more expensive it is less likely to evolve with the world around it causing issues with the whole sport down the road.

Competition is extremely important to keeping a great business sector going strong.

I mean if people can buy cheaper sleds new somewhere else and have better options and better availability they will go whether or not the product is better or worse. For example, I'd love to buy a Porsche but will have to settle for the corvette simply due to price and availability. On the road itself the porsche beat the vette hands down, but sure isnt worth the extra money i dont have.

When I look at yamaha and skidoo I think reliability and high price in yamaha, and cheaper greater diversity in skidoo.

To me skidoo wants to be in the game forever and always be #1, yamaha makes great sleds, but is happy just being in the game for now.

Might not be true, i dont know, but as a consumer i dont think im alone.

 

[yamahabandit]

That is one seriously long post! You lost me after 500ss motor being reliable, even doo fanatics will get a kick out of that one!
I recall this "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" from the early "70's. Sure the economy is in the dumpster. If your too young to remember Vietnam, oil crisis, sled companies going under left and right, then I can understand your worries. For the rest of us with a few gray hairs we've been there , done that and worse! My parents and wife's parents lived in Europe thru WW2, now that was BAD! Don't worry, be happy.

 

[Yammerhead]

Anybody guess what they make on each sled?

Lets say they made 10,000 sleds and sold them all, I cant imagine they make $2000-3000 each sled but lets say $3000 that is $3million profit in a company with annual sales of $5 billion.

I have no idea why they even continue to stay around.

Now you see why I'm thinking the way i am. We could lose our sport entirely pretty easily in the not so distant future.

And your statement is why I originally say some posts back that to me yamaha being interested in building sleds in the near future doesnt make sense when they have so many other avenues they make lots of dough off of.

If I was running a company I would want to put 100% time into the most profitable sectors and totally drop the ones that take more time and money to develop and sell then they end up being worth in the longer haul.
Its the basics of big business.

I don't know this for 100% fact, but I'm pretty sure snowmobile production offsets other seasonal equipment manufacturing for Yamaha. It think it allows them to better utilize labor.

I would have to agree that as a stand alone product, it would be tough to justify.

 

[yamaredman]

Maybe they could sell "motors" to the other makers

They already do.

Next time you see a 2010 Arctic Cat 120 in a showroom, pop the hood.

 

[AKrider]

But I would assume that Yamaha snowmobile is tied into all thing recreational ie. motorcycles, atv,boats, personnel watercraft and as a buisness whole you need to be in all things recreational so the people that have a yamaha motorcycle will stay brand loyal and buy a yamaha snowmoblie and so on. Yamaha builds a GREAT product and with the economy the way it is its only smart buisness not to sit on a bunch of inventory.

Yes, this is the same as what a Yamaha dealer of 30 years told me. He said the sled division never makes Yamaha Japan any money. It is there to offer their motorcycle customers a Yamaha to ride in the winter, thus helping keep them loyal to the brand.

Makes sense when you think about it. Yamaha never really follows the trends with snowmachines. They do their own thing with an emphasis on reliability and dependability. I think we are all seeing how the other 3 OEM's are struggling with the tighter emission regs. I don't recall ever reading so many threads about Ski-doo and Polaris sleds burning down or experiencing runability issues or having crank problems.

The same dealer told me that Yamaha viewed 2-stroke snowmachines as a dead end road and instead went 4-stroke. I completely believe they made the right decision. Kinda like when they developed the 700 cc triple instead of going to a twin like Polaris and Doo. I recall reading on the Sled Talk blog where the main Yamaha engine designer said they would not be able to achieve their standards of reliability out of a big twin. That decision did not follow what the market wanted at the time. But, Yamaha triples are still running around and have a reputation for dependability.

I think 2012 is going to hurt Polaris big time. They don't currently offer a viable 4-stroke and their 800cc 2-stroke is a fricking joke. I'm wondering what Cat has up their sleeve because everything thing I read says they are in a bad position with the throttle body 2-strokes even though they seem to be the most reliable. Ski-doo is okay emissions wise but I would not buy an eTec simply because all the crank bearing are lubed with IsoFlex grease rather than injector oil. Those bearings will need to be repacked eventually and that is not as simple of a task as repacking the wheel bearings on your trailer. I do like their 60 hp 4-stroke twin though. It looks to be very promising.

 

[blueironranger]

Sorry to make you think different but Etec is industly leading, they are #1 for a reason.

Imagine Etec in a 4 stroke application.

There are many MANY cars out on the road already with Gas Direct Injection, Even some Ford and GM products have it. It started in high end cars 10+ years now. Hell, direct injection has been around ALONG time, its called Diesel......... Direct injection doesn't benefit 4 strokes nearly as much as 2 strokes. Its what I call a "2 stroke LIFE LINE" since they NEED it to pass emissions and get good fuel economy, its there last step before getting banned. All our 4 stroke "toys" are running on 1980's automotive technology using a basic EFI system using pre-programmed fuel tables with only a TPS and MAP sensors for controls and they pass current emissions with ease.

 

[Maxout01]

[/quote]

I don't know this for 100% fact, but I'm pretty sure snowmobile production offsets other seasonal equipment manufacturing for Yamaha. It think it allows them to better utilize labor.

I would have to agree that as a stand alone product, it would be tough to justify.[/quote]


Exactly, so what im saying is as now times are changing, its getting easier and easier for them to move away from sleds. Just as you said its just an offset sales division to them. Well skidoo is in a totally different realm here. So what will happen is yamaha sleds will get less and less exciting and more and more pricey, and skidoo will get more and more advanced with competitive pricing. So down the road most new sleds purchased will not be yamahas, they will be doos.
I'm saying it feels to me like its getting less and less worth yamahas time and its starting to show with pricing and production numbers. Same could be said for polaris, hell even arctic cat.

 

[KevinS]

I think 2012 is going to hurt Polaris big time. They don't currently offer a viable 4-stroke and their 800cc 2-stroke is a fricking joke. I'm wondering what Cat has up their sleeve because everything thing I read says they are in a bad position with the throttle body 2-strokes even though they seem to be the most reliable. Ski-doo is okay emissions wise but I would not buy an eTec simply because all the crank bearing are lubed with IsoFlex grease rather than injector oil. Those bearings will need to be repacked eventually and that is not as simple of a task as repacking the wheel bearings on your trailer. I do like their 60 hp 4-stroke twin though. It looks to be very promising.

Cat's 800 HO meets EPA 2012 with the Pipe Sensor and throttle body EFI

http://www.supertraxmag.com/article.asp?nid=1441

 

[dirkdiggler]

I see still making tons of sleds at affordable prices is Skidoo.

Affordable? Did you see the prices on the new 800 etec. its almost the same as the apex se, the cheaper sleds on the market are proably a Polaris, if your looking at prices.

11K OTD for an 800 Etec X package
13600 OTD on an APEX SE

Big difference.

 

[Maxout01]

I see still making tons of sleds at affordable prices is Skidoo.

Affordable? Did you see the prices on the new 800 etec. its almost the same as the apex se, the cheaper sleds on the market are proably a Polaris, if your looking at prices.

11K OTD for an 800 Etec X package
13600 OTD on an APEX SE

Big difference.

yea thats for sure, theres alot that can be done with 2600.00 still in my pocket, lol!

I love yamahas. I like doos alot but would much rather own a new yamaha, theres just great sleds. But its aweful hard to justify that big a price difference, so this year i'm just not buying anything new..

I just dont want this to be the future..

 

[kinger]

They do make a darn nice vector or nytro that is much less money. You dont HAVE to buy a apex.

 

[Maxout01]

They do make a darn nice vector or nytro that is much less money. You dont HAVE to buy a apex.

Haha, I wish! I think once you own a sled with the power and sweet motor like the apex, you cant go back, lol!
I'm addicted!! Plus after riding them in demos, the new apex is the best sled I ever could want! I'll just want and buy a left over or used I guess..

Also what people are saying is the 800etec is basically the skidoo compettor to the apex and new one can be had for thousands less. I personally would much much rather have the apex, but its just hard to say "yes ill pay 2500-3000 more for the other sled" when buying new.

Knowones complaining, more just worried yamahas going to lose more then they gain this year. Being yamaha enthusiasts we all dont want to see that happen, we want to be #1!