10,000 miles of clutch opinions

[stevewithOCD]

Here it is.
My 3 year clutch & belt conclusions based on facts, data, conjecture, OCD opinions & lots of little belt chunks..................until this year! NO belt chunks.
I DO NOT have 10,000 miles on my current clutches since i LAUNCHED them in the "February Clutch Explosion of '19". Details later.

Let's refresh my memoirs shall we?
I said after my "Freshman 15" year that i wanted a belt to last 1500 miles so i could change them at 1000 since i was GRENADING them at 900.

2018, "The Year of the Cat" started with the removal of the 1mm washer behind the secondary so it was 60.5mm
I had a complete ThunderProducts kit on it. My plan was to test, adjust, test, adjust, etc...etc.
I did not have the means/time to do much changing & comparing so i ended up being way off.
NOT the clutch kits' fault!
I took temp readings with different belts & the temps showed some issues. The high temps were NOT the cause of belts "snapping" though.
I topped out at 100 no matter what i did. Turns out that the rear spring was the culprit with MY sled.
I went back to stock except for a Dalton Black/Orange spring. Top speed was 117 speedo, temps were down, but i was still loosing belts at 900 miles.
ClutchMaster SteveOO kept saying with the shorter center to centers the offset needs to be lowered.
I did not know him, but he sounded like a Fierry little "speed junkie know it all". Now that i know him................turns out i was right.

2019: "The FIXX"
I checked my parallel 3 different ways to shut the Fiesty & repetitive SteveOO up. It was within 2mm end to end.
I bought the Hurricane tool & shaved my secondary to 57.5mm with 1mm washer behind it. 57 would have been exact.
I put in vents, reduced my float from 6mm to 1.
I removed my stub shaft to Loctite it in then retorque it all. MY OFFSET MOVED! I had to remove the washer to get it back to 57.5mm. (we'll talk about this later)
I put in Dalton weights since i added a tune, but would have left it stock.

THEN i RODE! And ride i did.
I even tested 3 different makes of belts. ( we'll talk about this later)
Until my secondary rollers EVAPORATED. I believe they got "tainted" during one of the many violent belt explosions from the year before.
I tinkered a bit in the beginning then i NAILED it! Then i BLEW it up!!!
While replacing my rollers for the 3rd time, i forgot to Loctite the nuts. The roller fell out, the weight thought it was a loose Rottweiler, went for a run & ate my secondary.
With some help from TY faithful i was in Maine next weekend.

FINAL RESULTS:
1100 miles on 2 different style belts.
NO belt dust. NO explosions. NO angry OCD.
1300 miles on last 8JP that i'll send a pic of. It looks good. It has 50 miles on lake at WOT & one pull was a solid 4 miles in mush at 121 GPS that did not waver.
Belt temps are down and actually run cooler at higher speed.

MY SET UP:
Center to Center=62.5mm
Parallel=less than 2mm end to end of clutches
Offset=57.5mm
Float=1mm
Weights=Dalton at 71 grams
Primary Rollers=Schmitt Bros 14.8 mm
Secondary Rollers=HiTorque
Helix=Dalton 35
Primary Spring=Stock
Secondary Spring=Dalton YBO set at 90 degrees
TP 911 cover with Glide washers
BOP adjuster

Let's just TALK now. Blue collar boys bullchittin' around the camp fire.
The REAL fixes were the offset, vents, Dalton BO spring & float.
As SteveOO said 2 years ago, we need to get the offset to 57 to 58 with shorter centers. Longer centers can have 60 or so.
I just don't believe in a lot of float. NOT at these speeds & power. Stuff happens too fast for that clutch to be "deciding" where it wants to go. I'm like a trailer park husband in a tank top. "Go where i tell ya bitch!" and 57.5 is where i want it. (i do not condone violence especially with clutches)
The BOP adjuster is the only one that allows the float to be adjusted. I also believe in belt removing tools on this macheeeen cuz it's a PITA without one!
The stock set up with the Dalton BO works very well. I think the stock weights with stock power are actually very good.
I do NOT trust my stock primary spring so i may put a Dalton in. It hasn't broke yet..............YET!
LOCTITE your nuts!
I will change my primary rollers & belt every 1000 to 1500 miles. It's cheap & easy insurance especially with more power.
I'm looking into the solid bushings in the Primary rollers i've read about. That's next years' post.
The HiTorque Secondary rollers pulls the R's down a bit. They are a fibrous material so they can't break, but they may have some friction which can be compensated for.
The Stub Shaft can move with the violent belt explosions. Pull it out, put some Green Bearing Retainer on bearing & re-torque everything. Then check the parallel & set the offset. I've heard from some "people in the know" that some motor mounts are deteriorating.
There may be some things i can do to gain here & there, but at what cost & how much riding time will i have to sacrifice testing? I'm all set.

Now let's talk belts shall we. I tried the XS825, the 8JP & the Gates Carbon.
I never received my XTX to try, but i think i know the results.
Don't forget i wanted to see what worked best with a reasonably stock set up.
The 8JP won. The XS would probably win with a longer center or different spring pressures, but it just didn't perform with my set up.
The Carbon grabbed a bit better down low, but belt temps were up & top rpm's down a bit. Again some adjustment would remedy this, but i just want to ride at this point.
The 8JP is the cheapest & proved to be very good in MY Big Purple Macheeeeen.

OCD CONCLUSION:
-offset
-float or lack of
-vents
-Dalton BO spring
-Loctite
-8JP
-new primary rollers every 2000 miles

Did i mention LOCTiTE?

P.S: I do not promote Loctite so Permatex will work also
P.S2: Do not yell at your clutches or women. It doesn't work and NO that's not why i got divorced!

 

[stevewithOCD]

That belt has 1300 HARD miles & the clutches actually look clean for 3600 miles on them.
I'd love to see how far it will go, but i just want to ride DRAMA FREE!

 

[stevewithOCD]

OH, one more thing.
I set the belts even with top of clutch or down a tad.
NOT for performance, but we MUST be sure NO pressure is on chain case when it goes into reverse or back to forward.
I learned this from no name FLEECER & ThunderProducts.

 

[Fast]

OH, one more thing.
I set the belts even with top of clutch or down a tad.
NOT for performance, but we MUST be sure NO pressure is on chain case when it goes into reverse or back to forward.
I learned this from no name FLEECER & ThunderProducts.

The manual states set belt .5 to 1.5mm above secondary imo it should be at 1.5mm above for best results with 1500 miles my belt is still .5mm above and looks new

 

[ClutchMaster]

Nice write up OCD! You have a flare for words!
Stuff takes time to figure out, and your setup is simple and effective.
I think tho you forgot one thing.....you didn’t mention the use of what color locktight on roller pins....very important!

 

[Crossfire12]

Straight edge across from clutch to secondary on belt ,push center with ruler, measure 1 in , belt deflection, belts are different lengths !

 

[Fast]

Straight edge across from clutch to secondary on belt ,push center with ruler, measure 1 in , belt deflection, belts are different lengths !

Ok is 1" the max?

 

[race24x]

Nice write up

 

[stevewithOCD]

The manual states set belt .5 to 1.5mm above secondary imo it should be at 1.5mm above for best results with 1500 miles my belt is still .5mm above and looks new

That's what Manuel says, but i wouldn't.
Deflection can be different on each sled & each belt.
ThunderProducts told me they'd like to see it 1 to 2mm BELOW on Carbon due to the cords on the edge of the belt.
I also know of multiple people that found the reason they had reverse issues was pressure on chain when put into reverse or forward.
I do run it flush so we are only talking .5mm difference anyways.
FLUSH is just easy to check

 

[STAIN]

Need to add some weight to that primary?

 

[stevewithOCD]

Are you looking at the clutch marks on primary?

 

[STAIN]

Yup.

 

[Fast]

That's what Manuel says, but i wouldn't.
Deflection can be different on each sled & each belt.
ThunderProducts told me they'd like to see it 1 to 2mm BELOW on Carbon due to the cords on the edge of the belt.
I also know of multiple people that found the reason they had reverse issues was pressure on chain when put into reverse or forward.
I do run it flush so we are only talking .5mm difference anyways.
FLUSH is just easy to check

Im going have to dissagree with that, since new the yamaha belt was sitting 1.5mm above the secondary no reverse issues engine brake works amazing after 1500 miles it was .3mm above and the belt would squeal in hills when the engine brake started kicking in shim it back up to 1.5mm and squealing gone no reverse issue though i always let it idle down to 1450-1550rpm before i engage it

 

[ClutchMaster]

The only thing a little looser deflection will do is make your plastic geared junk reverse actuator last longer and engagement will be somewhat more harsh.
FYI if your reverse actuator fuc’s up you can take it apart, remove the worm drive gear/motor and spin the plastic gear so the worm gear is in contact with unstriped teeth and reassemble. I removed the plastic driven gear and re-lubricated because it seemed to stick some.

 

[Fleecer]

Im going have to dissagree with that, since new the yamaha belt was sitting 1.5mm above the secondary no reverse issues engine brake works amazing after 1500 miles it was .3mm above and the belt would squeal in hills when the engine brake started kicking in shim it back up to 1.5mm and squealing gone no reverse issue though i always let it idle down to 1450-1550rpm before i engage it

Running a tight deflection does not hinder the sled going in reverse, but rather hinders the sled going from reverse to forward. What will happen is sled wont shift into forward fully and will pop out stripping the upper gear. Hence, sled will not go forward and you end up walking. .....