Aftermarket clutch weight testing from this weekend

[**sj**]

interesting...but LESS torsion??????

 

[Dieselxtx]

interesting...but LESS torsion??????

I'm not sure the less torsion is going to help I agree more compression is needed but the torsion is also necessary I'm thinking these springs will need to be wound at 90deg or so

 

[**sj**]

I'm not sure the less torsion is going to help I agree more compression is needed but the torsion is also necessary I'm thinking these springs will need to be wound at 90deg or so

this was my though...why less torsion...at least with much more boost...should need more would think

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Its not that simple.....

As you know clutching is a mish/mosh of ALL components...Pointing at one particular part wont always give the specific result.

IE: When you add more compression, you add rpms....So if torsion was identical to prior spring, then overall you would be MUCH higher then you may want to be for end result.

Not to mention Dale knows the Reverse angle helix is popular(since he sells/makes them all) and likely another reason he spec'd this spring as he did. It will have some similar characteristics to a REV angle helix.

Nice thing is, spring are cheap and easy to swap out...I dont think I would ever go higher then 70 degrees, just not what these sleds need on TOP end.

 

[Doowithblue]

Can't wait to try my new gen OSP weights. My SLP purple secondary spring looks very similar to the new tough guy orange! Time will tell. Will fine tune with a helix if need be. Pulled crazy OD last year with both clutches machined and stk belt. Also have the 22 gear but likely not going to use it. 3" hyperflow is imo one of the best out there and still plenty quiet for me.

 

[**sj**]

Can't wait to try my new gen OSP weights. My SLP purple secondary spring looks very similar to the new tough guy orange! Time will tell. Will fine tune with a helix if need be. Pulled crazy OD last year with both clutches machined and stk belt. Also have the 22 gear but likely not going to use it. 3" hyperflow is imo one of the best out there and still plenty quiet for me.

who machined your clutches? And what power level (tune)

 

[Doowithblue]

My local machinist that does all my shock shafts. I ran td pt version 4.

 

[helix]

I'm not sure the less torsion is going to help I agree more compression is needed but the torsion is also necessary I'm thinking these springs will need to be wound at 90deg or so

The DPSS- YBO spring is more compression all the way through than the stock sidewinder spring, and a bit less torsion.

To answer your question about torsion.
The factory sidewinder spring- ...in general ( i know that different weights, boost levels, gearing etc come into play)...but in general most we spoke with seemed to find that it was more efficient on top (and easier on belts if you do half mile plus lake runs)...when set at 60*.

The black orange (YBO) spring has a torsion at 6-1 setting that is similar to the stock spring at 3-3.
Some would twist the stock spring up to 6-1 to try to help bottom end response, and often reports of slightly less top speed and not really the desired effect...but at the time with not many options, it did give a bit more rpm...but they really wanted the effect for bottom end.It may be that for some this YBO spring may like being set at 70 (6-1). It did seem so in the limited spring testing. but it will probably depend on the situation ( gearing, helix, etc).

I think what some are seeing is the fact that we have some more complete data, rather than the old " it is close to this" and "more than that". And I understand that the numbers may not be what people may expect.

 

[helix]

interesting...but LESS torsion??????

It is not uncommon to use different or slightly less torsion when you add compression. Sometimes it is best to not just add more unnecessary stress on the belt at full #*$&@ on long runs. If you are adding compression you may not need as much torsion/ It is all testing.

On some new snowmobiles from Arctic and skidoo, they have a clutch that has v shaped helixes for the rollers and you can adapt the clutch to use compression or torsion springs.
For instance, On a Skidoo 1200 four stroke, ...some clutch kits go away from the stock torsion type spring and go to a straight compression spring....much higher compression used because there is no torsion.

Here is another thought. We sell a lot of Arctic twist springs to Yamaha guys...lots of Yamaha clutch kits and drag racing done that way as many of you know. Even though the tangs are in different locations so you have to use different degrees and such ( drives some people crazy)...but lots do it. For the most of the arctic ones, the spring itself is very long and made from small (.207" wire) is way less torsion than the springs we are referring to and the stock sidewinder spring. Now some may think all of those guys are wrong and maybe, maybe not but it works for them.

I'm just sharing some info. Some of the best clutching is done by making sure that you keep a open mind.

I see people every day tuning...I see some that will change every component in both clutches to make sure the one spring or part they "think should work"...work...they will change everything to make sure it does!...and nothing wrong with that either I guess. As long as you enjoy doing it.

We set up and did some testing of secondary springs to help people compare our springs to known Yamaha springs. At least it is something. It is best to click on the link and read the whole chart and the notes, so that you dont focus on one thing.
I expect we will build even more tuning options as we go. Not all applications are the same. Many, especially overseas, seem to do things very differently than the trail riders here, but many longer track version with different gearing, etc.

More tuning options is good.

http://www.daltonindustries.com/product_detail.php?product_id=293

 

[**sj**]

thanks for the great explanation!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dale is the man when it comes to clutch components for sure!

Thanks for taking the time sir!

Dan

 

[stevewithOCD]

I've read the AAEN clutch "bible" many times, so sometimes i feel i know more than i probably do. Then i guy named Dale comes along & makes me realize "i don't know sh@#$%T"......thanks Dale from Dalton for the intellectual smack down.....i'm actually ecstatic you finally joined these clutch debates

 

[NOS-PRO]

Dale, thank you for explaining the way the spring works

Clutching a snowmobile is more than just adding or taking out weight. There are different profiles of weights, different rollers to swing that weight and when to swing it...then there are the springs. Primary isn't too bad as you can go by start and finish rates. But when it comes to secondary springs...side pressure and twist are very important for correct shift yet having enough belt squeeze.

Just an FYI on the new orange secondary spring from Thunder Products....

Friend of mine who is running a turbo viper on asphalt gained 3 mph this weekend at the Amsnow shootout.....just by putting in the orange secondary spring. He is happier than a tornado in a trailer park because he could not hit 150mph with the spring he was using. He is now a member of the 150 mph club!!!

 

[DMCTurbo]

Any testing done with the STM 60YS weights ulmer is using in his kits?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Any testing done with the STM 60YS weights ulmer is using in his kits?

Im gonna run these....always liked STMs on trail. I Also like Daltons but since I want to start with stock HP then go up later, STMs can cover the wide range of HP. Up to 32g add on.

Allens Notes, as he runs STMs..... https://totallyamaha.com/PDF/Sidewinder Clutching.pdf

Dan