canadianhunter
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Very good write up grizztracks.
Could you also write the procedure to remove the valve cover to check the valve timing ONLY ?
Ever since our two were done I have always felt that they did not idle very well and cold weather starting seemed poor, being especially had to keep idling untill good and warm when choke is turned off . I would like to check one just for piece of mind. Thanks
Could you also write the procedure to remove the valve cover to check the valve timing ONLY ?
Ever since our two were done I have always felt that they did not idle very well and cold weather starting seemed poor, being especially had to keep idling untill good and warm when choke is turned off . I would like to check one just for piece of mind. Thanks
jamesc
Pro
the insturctions for checking the valve timing are on the manual page he posted. as Fran mentioned you want to use the "ll" mark not the "l" mark. i'll try to outline it below.
i don't know if you can get away with it but for just checking the timing there's a slight chance you can lift the drive end of the valve cover up enough to see the marks without pulling the coolant outlet pipe using a flashlight. i was doing the tensioner so i don't know if this is possible.
you'll need to drain the coolant so you can remove the outlet pipe from the top of the cylinder head. being i had the bodywork off i backed off the clamp on the left floorboard cooler and drained it there. remove the expansion tank cap to vent it faster.
disconnect the coil connectors, twist and pull the coils / boots out of the head. it's not absolutely necessary to pull the plugs but i recommend doing it. blow out any dirt before pulling the plugs or pipe out. if you pull the plugs stuff some paper towels in the holes.
murphy's law states that any engine opening not protected will have something fall into it before the job is complete.
remove the single allen screw holding the pipe in, both carb heater hoses, twist the pipe, pull it and swing it out of the way. put a paper towel or something in the cylinder head outlet hole. there may be a couple of ties on the TPS harness tied to the hose, if so release / remove them.
remove the right side bodywork.
remove the hoses from the top of the oil tank and the two bolts / one nut holding the tank on. i had caps so i could plug the nipples off. if you're careful you can swing the tank back around the parking brake and support it with a bungee cord or piece of wire, remember it's full of oil.
this will allow you to have access to remove both screw covers to see the timing marks and flywheel bolt to turn the engine CLOCKWISE.
if you plan on changing the oil / filter you can drain it. it's best to do this warm but you'll want to let it cool some before working on the engine.
remove the valve cover attaching screws and carefully lift the cover off. it may be a good idea to remove the cover screw gaskets if they're loose and you tip the cover one could drop into the head.
on jobs like this i always minimize the time the engine is open as it's less likely dirt or foreign objects get in the engine.
check the timing per the instruction page. hopefully it's correct because otherwise you'll most likely need to pull the tensioner so you can reset the timing and tensioner. if you're experienced at working on engines you "might" be able to back off one sprocket and walk things around but that tensioner is one way and spring loaded so it would take some real sleight of hand to do this. i've got a ton of experience and don't even know if i'd attempt to pull it off.
inspect the outlet pipe O-ring. if it's good lube it before reinstallation, if not replace it. if you have access to a new one handy i would just replace it.
i think that covers it i've only done my brothers and this is off the top of my head.
i don't know if you can get away with it but for just checking the timing there's a slight chance you can lift the drive end of the valve cover up enough to see the marks without pulling the coolant outlet pipe using a flashlight. i was doing the tensioner so i don't know if this is possible.
you'll need to drain the coolant so you can remove the outlet pipe from the top of the cylinder head. being i had the bodywork off i backed off the clamp on the left floorboard cooler and drained it there. remove the expansion tank cap to vent it faster.
disconnect the coil connectors, twist and pull the coils / boots out of the head. it's not absolutely necessary to pull the plugs but i recommend doing it. blow out any dirt before pulling the plugs or pipe out. if you pull the plugs stuff some paper towels in the holes.
murphy's law states that any engine opening not protected will have something fall into it before the job is complete.
remove the single allen screw holding the pipe in, both carb heater hoses, twist the pipe, pull it and swing it out of the way. put a paper towel or something in the cylinder head outlet hole. there may be a couple of ties on the TPS harness tied to the hose, if so release / remove them.
remove the right side bodywork.
remove the hoses from the top of the oil tank and the two bolts / one nut holding the tank on. i had caps so i could plug the nipples off. if you're careful you can swing the tank back around the parking brake and support it with a bungee cord or piece of wire, remember it's full of oil.
this will allow you to have access to remove both screw covers to see the timing marks and flywheel bolt to turn the engine CLOCKWISE.
if you plan on changing the oil / filter you can drain it. it's best to do this warm but you'll want to let it cool some before working on the engine.
remove the valve cover attaching screws and carefully lift the cover off. it may be a good idea to remove the cover screw gaskets if they're loose and you tip the cover one could drop into the head.
on jobs like this i always minimize the time the engine is open as it's less likely dirt or foreign objects get in the engine.
check the timing per the instruction page. hopefully it's correct because otherwise you'll most likely need to pull the tensioner so you can reset the timing and tensioner. if you're experienced at working on engines you "might" be able to back off one sprocket and walk things around but that tensioner is one way and spring loaded so it would take some real sleight of hand to do this. i've got a ton of experience and don't even know if i'd attempt to pull it off.
inspect the outlet pipe O-ring. if it's good lube it before reinstallation, if not replace it. if you have access to a new one handy i would just replace it.
i think that covers it i've only done my brothers and this is off the top of my head.
grizztracks
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If you want to check the timing remove the right side panel then follow steps 7-9. Use the installation procedure diagram to assist you.
If the timing is off and a dealer did the tensioner replacement, load it up and take it back to them. They should correct it at no charge. Unfortunately I've heard about this happening.
If you need to reset the timing:
1) follow the previous procedure to remove the tensioner (check to make sure the timing mark at the stator is set to or just before the "II" mark before removing the tensioner)
2) reset the cam timing. Yamaha has a special tool to turn the cams but they can easily be turned by placing a wrench on one of the two gear bolts and rotating CW. The chain will have to be held up off of the gear until the cam is positioned correctly.
Set the front intake cam first. The "-- --" marks should be parallel with the top edge of the head and the #3 lobe at 5 o'clock. Pull the chain tight from the crank and drop it over the intake gear (use a tie strap to secure it to the gear)
Rotate the exhaust cam so that the "<-- -->" marks are parallel with the edge of the head and the cam lobe is positioned at 7 o'clock. The cam will not want to stay in this position so hold it with the turning tool (wrench) and pull the chain tight from the intake gear then drop it on the exhaust gear. Tie strap the chain to the gear before releasing the pressure from the turning tool. (the teeth on the gears are small and the chain jumps over them easily so make sure the tie straps are pulled tight on the gear)
3) recheck all timing marks. If your one tooth of at any point then you'll definitely notice it. If they look pretty close you're good.
4) remove the tensioner end plug. While lightly pressing the timing chain tensioner rod by hand, turn the tensioner rod fully clockwise
with a thin screwdriver to pull the cam plunger back then secure it with a locking tab
5) reinstall the tensioner then pull the locking tab. Cut the tie straps on the timing gears and rotate the engine several turns CW then recheck the timing marks.
6) if everything checks out reassemble.
If the timing is off and a dealer did the tensioner replacement, load it up and take it back to them. They should correct it at no charge. Unfortunately I've heard about this happening.
If you need to reset the timing:
1) follow the previous procedure to remove the tensioner (check to make sure the timing mark at the stator is set to or just before the "II" mark before removing the tensioner)
2) reset the cam timing. Yamaha has a special tool to turn the cams but they can easily be turned by placing a wrench on one of the two gear bolts and rotating CW. The chain will have to be held up off of the gear until the cam is positioned correctly.
Set the front intake cam first. The "-- --" marks should be parallel with the top edge of the head and the #3 lobe at 5 o'clock. Pull the chain tight from the crank and drop it over the intake gear (use a tie strap to secure it to the gear)
Rotate the exhaust cam so that the "<-- -->" marks are parallel with the edge of the head and the cam lobe is positioned at 7 o'clock. The cam will not want to stay in this position so hold it with the turning tool (wrench) and pull the chain tight from the intake gear then drop it on the exhaust gear. Tie strap the chain to the gear before releasing the pressure from the turning tool. (the teeth on the gears are small and the chain jumps over them easily so make sure the tie straps are pulled tight on the gear)
3) recheck all timing marks. If your one tooth of at any point then you'll definitely notice it. If they look pretty close you're good.
4) remove the tensioner end plug. While lightly pressing the timing chain tensioner rod by hand, turn the tensioner rod fully clockwise
with a thin screwdriver to pull the cam plunger back then secure it with a locking tab
5) reinstall the tensioner then pull the locking tab. Cut the tie straps on the timing gears and rotate the engine several turns CW then recheck the timing marks.
6) if everything checks out reassemble.
grizztracks
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I updated the procedure with a few pictures. If there is anything you'd like to see in more detail let me know, I have another sled coming in a few days for a tensioner replacement and exhaust donuts.
I just finished doing a tensioner on a vector and found that after the new tensioner was installed and the tie straps removed the exhaust cam wanted to roll CW because the tensioner had not yet taken up all the chain slack. As I rotated the crank I got enough slack between the two gears that could potentially allow the chain to jump. I think rolling the crank off of TDC one revolutions will prevent this problem. I added a note in the procedure.
I just finished doing a tensioner on a vector and found that after the new tensioner was installed and the tie straps removed the exhaust cam wanted to roll CW because the tensioner had not yet taken up all the chain slack. As I rotated the crank I got enough slack between the two gears that could potentially allow the chain to jump. I think rolling the crank off of TDC one revolutions will prevent this problem. I added a note in the procedure.
corvette327
Veteran
I have seen both the timing marks I AND II used by posters.
The manual shows the I mark.
Which one is correct ?
The manual shows the I mark.
Which one is correct ?
grizztracks
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I've done five of these now and it's always been the "II" mark. I always check the marks before I take any engine apart so I have a good idea how it should go back together. What I've found on these engines is if your off by one tooth on the gear the marks are way off. If you make sure that the cam gears are aligned with the top of the head you'll only be able to align the crank timing mark on the "II" mark. If you rotate the chain in either direction by one tooth the "I" and "II" marks are way off.
I'm not sure why the manual says to align the "I" mark. Maybe the chain stretches and the gears wear enough to bring the gear to the "II" mark. If you were installing new gears and a chain the "I" mark may be what you need to set the timing.
I'm not sure why the manual says to align the "I" mark. Maybe the chain stretches and the gears wear enough to bring the gear to the "II" mark. If you were installing new gears and a chain the "I" mark may be what you need to set the timing.
chemdude
Newbie
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Cam Chain Tensioner
Everyone that has an RS sled with the old style tensioner shooud replace it BEFORE it fails! If it fials your engine is shot.
Mine died at 4000 miles. Yamaha would do NOTHING for me. This does NOT speak highly of Yamaha.
Replace your tensioner now. Yamaha does NOT have the courtesy to contact customers and make them aware.
Everyone that has an RS sled with the old style tensioner shooud replace it BEFORE it fails! If it fials your engine is shot.
Mine died at 4000 miles. Yamaha would do NOTHING for me. This does NOT speak highly of Yamaha.
Replace your tensioner now. Yamaha does NOT have the courtesy to contact customers and make them aware.
Crewchief47
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I have an 06 Vector GT here with 6500 miles that is dead quiet and another 07 at 4000 that is the same. I'll keep an ear on it and do the repair if they start getting noisy.
corvette327
Veteran
Grizz thanks for the reply.
It went together fine at the II mark.
The cable ties worked great to get the chain alligned on both gears.
If only the tensioner was easier to get at but I am now more familiar with my machine.
It went together fine at the II mark.
The cable ties worked great to get the chain alligned on both gears.
If only the tensioner was easier to get at but I am now more familiar with my machine.
bluemissile
Pro
still curious as to what this sounds like. we all know the clutches make noise so it hard to tell what is ok and what is not.
What's a reasonable price to pay for this at a dealer?
bluemissile
Pro
moose head told me it takes 4 hours of labor plus parts and shop supplies. i think the parts runs anywhere from 160 to 200. and thne labor rates differ they quoted me 450.00
jarmentrout
Veteran
Hi everyone, I just thought I would say a quick thanks to Grizz for his tutorial. I just did my 06 Venture RS. Parts were about $160. But it took me much longer than 4 hrs. Perhaps if you've done a few you can get it done in that amount of time, but I took longer.
I put clear packing tape over my tank cover to keep it from getting scratched. I think this was a good idea. The handle bars will sit back on it and it will be flung around a little...
Just a couple of notes about the job:
1) I tried to cheat and not disconnect the steering shaft. At first glance it doesn't appear that this is necessary, but it is and makes things much easier.
2) I did not pull apart the entire rear end of the Venture, with all the rack support, tail lights, rear hand rails, etc. It seemed be a real pain. I did disconnect the exhaust manifold hanger as described. But the flex pipes came right out of the manifold once I got to jacking up the engine.
3) I took some advice here and did not pry on the block with a bar. I took the bottom pan off and put a jack and a piece of wood on the support under the oil filter. That worked great because I could raise and lower it and get the mounts lined up when putting it back together.
4) I did use zip ties to keep the cams from jumping time. As soon as I removed the tensioner the exhaust cam rotated and created slack in the chain between the cams. When I was ready to pull the tab out of the new tensioner, I used a tool to rotate the ex. cam sprocket back to take up the slack (putting the slack back toward the tensioner). This helped take up all the slack as soon as I pulled the tab on the new tensioner.
I rotated the crank a few times carefully to make sure that it was all taken up and had no problems with jumped timing.
5) Once it's mostly together, don't be tempted to start it before putting on the air box. one of the oil pipes that goes to the air box WILL spew oil all over the place. Remember to re attached the little oil pipe to the bottom of the air box.
6) When I reattached the exhaust, I used new donuts, and put a wire around the rear-most flex ring. This way I could pull the flex pipe rearward while tightening the exhaust clamps. I did not do this at first and had an ex. leak. Had to disconnect the handlebars and remove the tank again to fix it. Perhaps if you disconnect the muffler so it moves this would not be a problem.
Hope this helps someone else...
John
I put clear packing tape over my tank cover to keep it from getting scratched. I think this was a good idea. The handle bars will sit back on it and it will be flung around a little...
Just a couple of notes about the job:
1) I tried to cheat and not disconnect the steering shaft. At first glance it doesn't appear that this is necessary, but it is and makes things much easier.
2) I did not pull apart the entire rear end of the Venture, with all the rack support, tail lights, rear hand rails, etc. It seemed be a real pain. I did disconnect the exhaust manifold hanger as described. But the flex pipes came right out of the manifold once I got to jacking up the engine.
3) I took some advice here and did not pry on the block with a bar. I took the bottom pan off and put a jack and a piece of wood on the support under the oil filter. That worked great because I could raise and lower it and get the mounts lined up when putting it back together.
4) I did use zip ties to keep the cams from jumping time. As soon as I removed the tensioner the exhaust cam rotated and created slack in the chain between the cams. When I was ready to pull the tab out of the new tensioner, I used a tool to rotate the ex. cam sprocket back to take up the slack (putting the slack back toward the tensioner). This helped take up all the slack as soon as I pulled the tab on the new tensioner.
I rotated the crank a few times carefully to make sure that it was all taken up and had no problems with jumped timing.
5) Once it's mostly together, don't be tempted to start it before putting on the air box. one of the oil pipes that goes to the air box WILL spew oil all over the place. Remember to re attached the little oil pipe to the bottom of the air box.
6) When I reattached the exhaust, I used new donuts, and put a wire around the rear-most flex ring. This way I could pull the flex pipe rearward while tightening the exhaust clamps. I did not do this at first and had an ex. leak. Had to disconnect the handlebars and remove the tank again to fix it. Perhaps if you disconnect the muffler so it moves this would not be a problem.
Hope this helps someone else...
John
bluemissile said:
I just had Woody's in Topsham do mine for just under 350.00. I thought that seemed like a pretty decent price, but wasn't sure. They told me that when Yamaha covered them, the price tag was near 700.00!
jarmentrout
Veteran
That seems very reasonable for the amount of work required unless the know some trick. Especially if that is with parts.
