Cold starting

[stomper]

Totally agree. Not sure what the voltage is when cranking and to be honest I already know it’s to low to start it. I can literally hear that it’s cranking slower on cold starts. I can’t even put a bigger battery in cause there isn’t much extra space. The simplest and easiest solution is I just need to keep a booster pack handy in temps below-20c.

 

[03RX1-ER-LE]

Totally agree. Not sure what the voltage is when cranking and to be honest I already know it’s to low to start it. I can literally hear that it’s cranking slower on cold starts. I can’t even put a bigger battery in cause there isn’t much extra space. The simplest and easiest solution is I just need to keep a booster pack handy in temps below-20c.

Also make sure you have the no freeze fuel pump relay installed as well the latest ECU flash done.

 

[Doug7000]

I’m having issues to but verified mine was fuel related. Anything -10c and colder is a crap shoot. No issues when warm. Checked spark-ok..... removed intake boots....held throttle open and inspected for fuel from injectors while cranking..... very little to nothing coming from the injectors. Spray fuel in throttle bodies... it fired up. Went out to day.....-3..... held throttle open, cranked.... lots of fuel present and fired up. So frustrating as I love the machine but hate this no start issue!!

 

[Vmax]

My own personal opinion is that the battery location is a very large part of the issue with cold weather starting. The size of the cables required to reduce voltage drop under load during extreme cold is also an issue. The battery is located to far from the starter and the connecting cables between are undersized for the VD. The cables are rated for the current however at a cost to the supply voltage.
I had five sleds all in the same conditions, three Apexs (two 2012 and one 2011) and two SR-Vipers. The Apexs started as they always do in extreme cold with some cranking but the rpm of the cranking was not diminished from the cold. The SR-Vipers tried to start but the cranking was so slow that they would not turn over. Hooked up cables to a truck, effectively removing the voltage drop and they fired off better than the Apexs. I have always thought that the battery located at the rear, as far away from the starter as was a ridiculous idea and a design issue that should not have been over-looked. I really wish someone would develop a battery relocation kit for the SR-Viper all models.

I understand your theory but why then will they fire after three tries? You would think the battery voltage would decrease with every try which would go against your theory.
Not saying your wrong or not on to something that needs attention from Yami and Cat. As many have said, having to bring a battery booster along on every trip after spending some serious coin on a sled is not attractive to potential buyers or gain confidence in us that own one.

 

[Jon Boron]

My biased opinion is low cranking rpms combined with lower voltage makes for hard cold starts when colder than -10F. I installed a couple 50watt block heater pads, one on oil tank and one on the oil pan and will plug it it when below zero.

 

[Vmax]

I installed a strip heater on my oil tank but not on the pan (to much stuff to remove to get at it). I plugged it in on a cold but not extremely cold night and when I checked it in the morning the oil tank was not very warm. I thought maybe the heat would be enough to transfer into the sump and although I couldn't check the sump by feel I doubt there was enough heat generated for that to happen.
As many have mentioned it seems to be more of a battery cranking issue than cold oil but I understand if we can keep the oil warm that is one less thing the battery has to struggle against.

 

[grizztracks]

Placing a heater on the sump does very little. There's very little oil in the sump to heat and being that it's an aluminum sump the heat produced dissipates rather quickly. Keeping the coolant and battery warm would be more beneficial.

 

[Big Pussy]

Placing a heater on the sump does very little. There's very little oil in the sump to heat and being that it's an aluminum sump the heat produced dissipates rather quickly. Keeping the coolant and battery warm would be more beneficial.

I can see that y0u never really installed these heaters, just speculating. Installing 2 Katt's 26050 pad heaters, one on the right side of the pan and one on the front left side of the block will start the sled in any cold condition. I have installed these on my new XF7000LXR and NEVER had a cold start issue , EVER. As long as there is a 120 volt outlet around. Somewhere around -15 deg C is when the heaters are needed.

The idea is NOT to heat the oil, or the coolant. The idea is to put heat into the aluminum block so the oil in the main and balance shaft bearings is not like maple syrup when you crank it. If you don't think this is enough heat to do the job, then you must live in Antarctica.

Spend the money. Install the heaters and ride.

 

[grizztracks]

I can see that y0u never really installed these heaters, just speculating.

That's funny........... You're speculating about my overall experience with these engines.

Installing a heater pad on the sump does very little but add enough of them they'll eventually keep up with the amount of heat being dissipated. You added a second heat source to the block itself which makes more sense due to the proximity to the crank. Again, add a large enough heat source and it's bound to help although it does nothing to help with the low voltage situation that the electronics tend to struggle with in colder weather.

My Viper has sat out in -30 to -40 C weather with no heat source and it started every morning with the use of a jump pack on the battery. Heat the block all you want but if the battery drops voltage these engines will struggle... or am I speculating

 

[Big Pussy]

Yea you are speculating. The sled will probably start with just the heater on the block. The one on the pan is for the other side of the engine since I could get one on the right side because there was no smooth area.

What is real funny is how this sled and two others fitted with the same heaters start the first try when sitting outside in Kirkland Lake, Timmins, Cochrane, Kapikasing, Hearst and Amos PQ. -34Cor not. Oh and BTW the original battery is still in my sled.

If you like fiddling around with the seat and booster boxes, then you go for it. I just roil up my cord, put it in my touring bag and ride. I LMAO watching Sidewinders getting ripped apart in motel parking lots with booster boxes and box heaters and hair dryers all around. I guess some people will never listen.

 

[Vmax]

Cool how you cut an access door in the belly pan. I installed a strip heater on the oil reservoir, not sure if that will help or not.
I was thinking of installing booster cables on my battery and extend them through the hole at the back of the seat so if I need my boost pack I don't have to take the seat off. I did this for my battery tender

 

[Big Pussy]

Cool how you cut an access door in the belly pan. I installed a strip heater on the oil reservoir, not sure if that will help or not.
I was thinking of installing booster cables on my battery and extend them through the hole at the back of the seat so if I need my boost pack I don't have to take the seat off. I did this for my battery tender

Vmax,

I do not cut the hole. That is the oil/filter/starter change access panel on every Yama-Cat.

The heater on the oil tank is pretty much useless IMO. Like I said above, heat the engine casting, not the oil. Don't use a coolant heater or the warm coolant temp sensor will stop the cold start routine. Get two Kat's 26050 50 watt heaters and install as per my pictures. Make sure the casting is smooth. Clean it up with a die grinder and Scotch Brite disk if you have to. Run the cords out the right foot well. Get a 4 or 5 meter extension cord with a 3 outlet female end with a light inside so you know the outlet works. Get a 2 - 3 meter cord with light and 3 tap end to jumper over to your buddy's sled. We have daisy chained 3 sleds together already. In Northern Ontario, every motel has outlets outside for diesel trucks and cars block heaters.

I bought a small boost box but never used it yet. Why would I submit my starter, and fragile gears to extra torque when the sled can start like a normal warm start ? If you do what I tell you, you will never have a cold start problem period. When not needed, you can push the cords up over the round tube so they are out of the way of your foot.

 

[Vmax]

Sorry, I am new to the 4 stroke world. So I should take the heater off of the reservoir and install it as per your pictures.

Thanks, I have all summer to rig up

 

[Big Pussy]

Sorry, I am new to the 4 stroke world. So I should take the heater off of the reservoir and install it as per your pictures.

You can leave it there but it won't help you. If you rip it off, it probably won't stick again.

Here is a picture of a Thursday morning in Kirkland Lake this winter. -29C morning and both sleds started on the first try. A lot of dusting was required first though. Note the pilot light on the extension cord end. The Skippy-Doo in the middle needed a hair dryer to warm it up enough to pull the engine over with office arms. Its not just the 4-strokes that have problems. The trick is to make your trip as reliable and effortless as possible. They were plugged in all night. There is no extra charge for the power so its a free start.

 

[Vmax]