Cold starting

[cannondale27]

i dont get it, seems so random or luck of the draw...mine has never not started. Almost 7000miles only time was when the battery was flat. Today i put on 300 miles it was -19c...feels like -30 they said. We stopped for food and this guy had a cat 7000 and he had the hood off him and his wife cursing...i said you guys alright and he said yah just these stupid relays just gotta switch them around or warm them up...im like thats so weird mine doesnt do that...he said hes never did and now does. We were in there much longer then him, came out after almost 2 hours and mine fired right up. Im confused, ive never actually even opened my fuse box.

Same here. Mine never had a issue other than the two crank deal now. Before flash it started better the colder it was. Instant so fast it scares you quick. Now it is two cranks in cold. No biggie.

 

[FrozenTows4]

Nytro does not suffer from this issue. They have a Solid State relay available for all Japan Yamaha’s.

My bad. Went with hear say. I know better. Sorry. -22F start attempt coming up shortly. Stay tuned....................

 

[kyzer]

-39c parked the sleds at 6pm . Outside by the lake, both fired in the morning wasn't pretty but they started. Took off for a nice ride at -30c..Impressed that they started .

 

[savageman69]

im starting to wonder if its a bad batch of relays...-23c today fired off first crank

 

[Fixit156]

It was -15F this morning and had a very hard time starting my 2017 Viper with 800 miles. Took about 15 tries to get it going. It would catch for second . It even back fired couple times. But it did finally start. This was the third morning in a row starting at - 15F . I have been riding in 15 inches of new snow it’s like dust and it is packed in every crevice of the machine. I could hear fuel pump running, an thoughts about what is going on?

 

[FrozenTows4]

2014 XF7000 may have a pattern evolving.
-10f/-23c seems to be he cut off for easy start. These are my coolant temperature readings..........

-22f/-30c spin, sputter, no start, need to heat up.
-16f/-27c spin, sputter, start, but complains.
-9f/-22c starts 2nd try
+16f/-9c started 1st try. Usually takes 2 tries no matter what. It just decided to start first try yesterday.

 

[yammitrip1]

-15 Saturday night, it was sitting for 3 days. It's turned over twice really really slow, fired but I held the key a bit to ensure it went and it ran perfect!

 

[Pat Cat]

2014 XF7000 may have a pattern evolving.
-10f/-23c seems to be he cut off for easy start. These are my coolant temperature readings..........

-22f/-30c spin, sputter, no start, need to heat up.
-16f/-27c spin, sputter, start, but complains.
-9f/-22c starts 2nd try
+16f/-9c started 1st try. Usually takes 2 tries no matter what. It just decided to start first try yesterday.

Exactly same thing for me

 

[Goober01]

My own personal opinion is that the battery location is a very large part of the issue with cold weather starting. The size of the cables required to reduce voltage drop under load during extreme cold is also an issue. The battery is located to far from the starter and the connecting cables between are undersized for the VD. The cables are rated for the current however at a cost to the supply voltage.
I had five sleds all in the same conditions, three Apexs (two 2012 and one 2011) and two SR-Vipers. The Apexs started as they always do in extreme cold with some cranking but the rpm of the cranking was not diminished from the cold. The SR-Vipers tried to start but the cranking was so slow that they would not turn over. Hooked up cables to a truck, effectively removing the voltage drop and they fired off better than the Apexs. I have always thought that the battery located at the rear, as far away from the starter as was a ridiculous idea and a design issue that should not have been over-looked. I really wish someone would develop a battery relocation kit for the SR-Viper all models.

I agree completely

 

[Pat Cat]

I agree completely

Yesterday, battery wasn't the problem, but Air Fuel ratio yes. My sled was outside (under de cover) and battery tender plugged before first try. After about 15 to 20 tries, battery was perfect, cranking speed very accurate. Finally fired, but after 3 or 4 back fire, black smoke and some words from me. 2016, last ecu update, 5300km, -26°C.
My XF1100 with the Suzuki with the same battery location never known the outside temperature.
The last ecu update change the cold starting. My ZR7000 2014 was a lot better with the second flash.
I don't think I will buy another one.

 

[savageman69]

Yesterday, battery wasn't the problem, but Air Fuel ratio yes. My sled was outside (under de cover) and battery tender plugged before first try. After about 15 to 20 tries, battery was perfect, cranking speed very accurate. Finally fired, but after 3 or 4 back fire, black smoke and some words from me. 2016, last ecu update, 5300km, -26°C.
My XF1100 with the Suzuki with the same battery location never known the outside temperature.
The last ecu update change the cold starting. My ZR7000 2014 was a lot better with the second flash.
I don't think I will buy another one.

Thats what i have 2015 flash, ek10 plugs and it starts -20s first crank

 

[FrozenTows4]

Trying some different relays from Savageman's link.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Song-Chuan/303-1AH-S-R1-12vdc/?qs=/ha2pyFadujNfryEh5Wm2zBhoPvVTF1DcOdAjU7w7KZmYDMA2ShphMe9jDLsl7l8



Same Mfg with slightly different part number. I changed them all! LOL!
Now we wait for the -20f test...

 

[FrozenTows4]

Update: 2014 XF7000
Relays do not solve the problem.

Thursday evening -24f. Sled outside at motel. Morning warms up to -15f.
Coolant temperature -14f.
No start. Just the usual spin, sputter, pop, and nothing.
Heat gun to relays. Still nothing.
Heat gun to entire engine until coolant is +4f.
Starts, but very rough. Cleared up in 15 seconds. Looked like 2 stroke with all the steam rising.

Wifes ZR4000 starts 4th pull. SkiDoo E-Teks start with a momentary push of the button.
SkiDoo Aces, 900 & 600, start on a couple cranks. 2004 Polaris Classic starts with a couple turns of the key.

There is something else going on with these engines. I may try a re-reflash?
New battery this season. Always spins fast.
If I don't get this figured out soon, it's going away. At less than 5000 miles it may have some value still.

I'm digging in my heals installing an inline coolant heater. Shouldn't need it. A snowmobile, that doesn't start in the cold is unacceptable.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mbarryracing]

IMO fuel will play a factor in cold starting also... it's not always all the machine.
Higher octane fuels vaporize harder the colder it is. Ethanol % probably affects too, along with if it is a cold weather blend or not. Alcohols take 6X's more heat than gasoline to vaporize.
I've had drag race sleds that wouldn't start, acting the same way you guys refer to. Had to start on pump gas to get warmed up then dump in race fuel. Also have had fuel that would pop and misfire while running hard because it was stale and wasn't vaporizing, took us on a wild f*kn goose chase...
Also had stock sleds before that started real hard on premium at -20 deg but fired right up on 87
Just saying, don't forget fuel...

 

[grizztracks]

Update: 2014 XF7000
Relays do not solve the problem.

Your statement is a little misleading. The update relay that I've referenced many times is a sealed relay unlike the stock relays. It won't cure all the start issues but may reduce the chance of a no start due to a relay freeze up which can happen in extreme cold conditions. The cold start issue is more than likely due to a poor ECU design and programing. My 15 Viper has more of an issue with a warm start than it does cold. It can take several attempts after I shut it down then try to restart after 20-30 mins (haven't done the more recent 16 flash yet).

The rear battery location is not the problem although maintaining a good battery voltage is important for the Cat electronics to function properly. The Viper's extra length in wires to the rear battery has minimal voltage drop in comparison to a Nytro. There is a 15 Viper out there running around with a Nytro engine and electronics that does not suffer from the typical Viper start issues and it's battery is still in the rear with the same size and length of wiring. The Hybrid Viper starts every time as if it was still in the FX chassis.