Lots of testing and believe we have the offset nailed down

[HABS 1]

End play? Explain more.

does the secondary move back n forth (float)with washer removed, or is it tight?i know on my apex they wanted 8 thousands or so end play and i remember when i checked the winder last year its secodary was tight

 

[justinator]

does the secondary move back n forth (float)with washer removed, or is it tight?i know on my apex they wanted 8 thousands or so end play and i remember when i checked the winder last year its secodary was tight

The winder secondary has float. It does not move till the secondary begins to open. This is because they use a large washer against the helix to set belt tension/height, so when stopped this washer is pressing against helix not allowing the clutch to move at all.

 

[jonlafon1]

does the secondary move back n forth (float)with washer removed, or is it tight?i know on my apex they wanted 8 thousands or so end play and i remember when i checked the winder last year its secodary was tight

It does have float with the stock plug and one washer set up(that's how mine came from dealer)..
I have a adjustable secondary tool I used on my 2017 and I bought another for the 22. I do not get any initial float with the adjuster.

 

[Thunder Products]

does the secondary move back n forth (float)with washer removed, or is it tight?i know on my apex they wanted 8 thousands or so end play and i remember when i checked the winder last year its secodary was tight

This will be long....but needed.

The secondary clutch on the winder is different than the Apex and other models. There are (3) 8mm bolts on the back of the Apex and other model Yamaha clutches that hold the sheaves apart for belt deflection. With these (3) bolts, since they keep the secondary from coming together, when the secondary is mounted on the secondary shaft, there is "float". Float is adjusted with shims on the secondary shaft.

The winder does not have these (3) bolts on the backside of the clutch so the belt deflection is handled by the shims on the secondary shaft alone. Because there are no 8mm bolts on the backside of the secondary for the winder, it allows the clutch to fully close which puts pressure on the shims....which at idle, you will not have float. Once the sled starts moving, you will have float. A good way to test this is with the sled off and at rest, you cannot move the secondary in or out. Now, push in on your helix, your belt will drop into the secondary and now you can move your clutch in and out. This is your float. So, you will not have float at an idle, you will have float once your sled in moving.

And, if you remove the washer behind the secondary, you will have to remove the same washer thickness shims behind the large washer that holds your secondary clutch on. THIS IS HOW YOU CONTROL YOUR BELT DEFLECTION!!! Unless you have a nice secondary adjuster from Thunder Products Clutching, you can just dial in your belt deflection.

 

[rtx moose]

This will be long....but needed.

The secondary clutch on the winder is different than the Apex and other models. There are (3) 8mm bolts on the back of the Apex and other model Yamaha clutches that hold the sheaves apart for belt deflection. With these (3) bolts, since they keep the secondary from coming together, when the secondary is mounted on the secondary shaft, there is "float". Float is adjusted with shims on the secondary shaft.

The winder does not have these (3) bolts on the backside of the clutch so the belt deflection is handled by the shims on the secondary shaft alone. Because there are no 8mm bolts on the backside of the secondary for the winder, it allows the clutch to fully close which puts pressure on the shims....which at idle, you will not have float. Once the sled starts moving, you will have float. A good way to test this is with the sled off and at rest, you cannot move the secondary in or out. Now, push in on your helix, your belt will drop into the secondary and now you can move your clutch in and out. This is your float. So, you will not have float at an idle, you will have float once your sled in moving.

And, if you remove the washer behind the secondary, you will have to remove the same washer thickness shims behind the large washer that holds your secondary clutch on. THIS IS HOW YOU CONTROL YOUR BELT DEFLECTION!!! Unless you have a nice secondary adjuster from Thunder Products Clutching, you can just dial in your belt deflection.

Looks like your adjuster is a modified ring gage?

 

[Thunder Products]

Looks like your adjuster is a modified ring gage?

It may look like a ring gauge, but it is all aluminum. Benefits are you can adjust with your gloves on.

 

[HABS 1]

This will be long....but needed.

The secondary clutch on the winder is different than the Apex and other models. There are (3) 8mm bolts on the back of the Apex and other model Yamaha clutches that hold the sheaves apart for belt deflection. With these (3) bolts, since they keep the secondary from coming together, when the secondary is mounted on the secondary shaft, there is "float". Float is adjusted with shims on the secondary shaft.

The winder does not have these (3) bolts on the backside of the clutch so the belt deflection is handled by the shims on the secondary shaft alone. Because there are no 8mm bolts on the backside of the secondary for the winder, it allows the clutch to fully close which puts pressure on the shims....which at idle, you will not have float. Once the sled starts moving, you will have float. A good way to test this is with the sled off and at rest, you cannot move the secondary in or out. Now, push in on your helix, your belt will drop into the secondary and now you can move your clutch in and out. This is your float. So, you will not have float at an idle, you will have float once your sled in moving.

And, if you remove the washer behind the secondary, you will have to remove the same washer thickness shims behind the large washer that holds your secondary clutch on. THIS IS HOW YOU CONTROL YOUR BELT DEFLECTION!!! Unless you have a nice secondary adjuster from Thunder Products Clutching, you can just dial in your belt deflection.

gotcha! yes i shimmed those 3 bolts alot on my apex to get max belt height with no belts squeel , looks like i need that tool for the winder , alot easier to than removing secondary to shim!! thanks

 

[rtx moose]

It may look like a ring gauge, but it is all aluminum. Benefits are you can adjust with your gloves on.

Just making an observation

 

[justinator]

gotcha! yes i shimmed those 3 bolts alot on my apex to get max belt height with no belts squeel , looks like i need that tool for the winder , alot easier to than removing secondary to shim!! thanks

You dont have to remove secondary to shim for belt height. You remove the bolt that holds secondary on and there will be some small shims behind the big washer that touches helix. Too make belt sit lower in Clutch you remove a shim or two and to make it sit higher you add a shim or two.This is what controls how far the helix gets pushed in when you tighten the mounting bolt down.

 

[HABS 1]

You dont have to remove secondary to shim for belt height. You remove the bolt that holds secondary on and there will be some small shims behind the big washer that touches helix. Too make belt sit lower in Clutch you remove a shim or two and to make it sit higher you add a shim or two.This is what controls how far the helix gets pushed in when you tighten the mounting bolt down.

rite alot easier than removing secondary n playin with 3 bolt shims

 

[PAvector]

Should the SrViper run 57.8 also?

 

[Phatboyc]

Wanted to bring this back to the top. Good post. I will add that my 2022 LTX Se. with no washer behind secondary just the cir clip is @ 57.9 mm offset. That’s right from factory no machining no washer behind secondary. I will add it came from the dealer set like this. I will leave it right at that!!

Thats great news! Sorry for my ignorance but is this measurement after you remove the washer behind secondary or you mean there wasn't one to start with?

 

[Phatboyc]

And, if you remove the washer behind the secondary, you will have to remove the same washer thickness shims behind the large washer that holds your secondary clutch on. THIS IS HOW YOU CONTROL YOUR BELT DEFLECTION!!! Unless you have a nice secondary adjuster from Thunder Products Clutching, you can just dial in your belt deflection.

Thanks for the explanation and reminder. But this assumes you had proper deflection to start with? Or is the washer behind secondary is so thick that removing same thickeness shims is always needed to have proper deflection?

 

[Thunder Products]

Should the SrViper run 57.8 also?

Thunder Products Clutching has also been machining the secondaries on Vipers (especially the turbo sleds)

 

[jonlafon1]

Thats great news! Sorry for my ignorance but is this measurement after you remove the washer behind secondary or you mean there wasn't one to start with?

I had no washer behind SIDEWINDER secondary. My measurement was made this way.. In the past years a lot had shim behind secondary from dealer and the issue is the offset needs to be 57.5-58mm So most had to remove this washer to get close to this offset.. In 2017 most had to remove approximately 3mm off the stub shaft by machining metal off to get to this offset.. This thread is about SIDEWINDER CLUTCHES and proper offset.... 3 roller secondary from yamaha that came out in 2017..